To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead18]

You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.

However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.

In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.

If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

Upstart 💐

I will do anything I can to amplify your voice.

But I got the impression that very few of them think that the transgender movement is "the biggest threat to women and girls' rights in 100 years", or find it helpful that some self-identified feminists devote such a large proportion of their time to opposing it, and nor, I dare say, do they care to be used as emotive props for your argument and pretty much ignored the rest of the time.

I think, in short, that you're exploiting them in the service of your obsession.

How insulting, how dare you speak about this vulnerable group in this manner! No, they may not be thinking of the bigger picture but they sure as hell do not want to be locked inside a small space with no means of escape with violent men!

And FYI, I was having a general chat with 5 women about equality today, how women are regularly denied pain relief from gps/hospitals, how women burden the cost of raising children financially, how universal credit penalises women. Don't underestimate how articulate these women are, they are true survivors and you are an embarrassment quite frankly.

Thank you Ereshkigal.

This isn't about excluding blue eyed people from society.
When White was put into the womens prison no risk assessment was carried out at all, and the rapes carried out in the psychiatric unit had not come to light.

A high percentage of women prisoners are DV survivors, and have head injuries.
A high percentage of women in mental health wards are abuse survivors.
You have to wonder whats really going on when staff think its ok to be this inclusive.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3169178-Transgender-prisoner-living-as-woman-wins-jails-Miss-Fitness-competition-by-country-mile

But I got the impression that very few of them think that the transgender movement is "the biggest threat to women and girls' rights in 100 years",

Seriously, what is the point of this comment?

Are you actually trying to imply that incarcerated women agree with you putting men in their prison? Or they couldn't care less? Is that your position?

@FruitCider, let me put this as politely as I can.

You have no idea what I am or am not surviving. The only thing you know is that I disagree with you.

My friend was a prison visitor/support worker for foreign nationals, and yes, women prisoners, like refugees, have often experienced both routine and horrific violence among a multitude of other injustices.

But I got the impression that very few of them think that the transgender movement

Nothing here to indicate anything Were, your last comment was vague and because I'm not telepathic unless you say explicitly what you are trying to survive I won't know. But your comment leads me to believe you are either an ex offender or transgender, I can understand your views with the latter but not the former.

None of us on here knows what any of us are surviving. 💐 anyway.

However, surviving awful experiences or not, it's completely illogical, unkind & in my view abusive to force women to live in the prison estate with males.

If you (Mumsnet reader) agree please sign here:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

You don't like women very much.

You surround yourself with women you like then profess to like "women".

You surround yourself with women who agree with you then say you speak for "women".

Except the women you like and speak up for are not women as a general group, they're just the tiny number who are your tribe.

You know who cares about and speaks in the interest of women? You know, all women, not just your mates or those you leverage in debate?

Feminists.

But you don't like them very much, because they understand feminism isn't about "centering women" or some other bullshit catchphrase, but is about human rights. The rights of women as human beings, not the rights of women with fuck all respect for any other human being's rights.

That's the difference between you and a feminist. A feminist fights for women so that all people can be equally free. You fight for women to get what you feel women deserve, regardless of what inequity might result - not your tribe, not your problem!

Feminism is a fight to redress an imbalance in society of opportunity and reward. In other words, oppression.

What you are doing in the of feminism is Britain Women First.

What you are doing in the of feminism is Britain Women First.

Given me best laugh all day so thanks for that.

Feminists.

Your "feminism" is in my opinion an appropriation of the word. What you mean is "equalism".

However we're not playing on a level field.

Feminism is a movement to liberate women from sex based oppression. So it seems your understanding isn't a universal one.

Feminists.

Your "feminism" is in my opinion an appropriation of the word. What you mean is "equalism".

However we're not playing on a level field.

Feminism is a movement to liberate women from sex based oppression. So it seems your understanding isn't a universal one.

Sorry for dupe

You surround yourself with women you like then profess to like "women".

You surround yourself with women who agree with you then say you speak for "women".

Rat the thing is we do speak for the majority of women and men. As can be seen by the polls in this thread mobile.twitter.com/helenstaniland/status/1058273555165728769

We aren't arguing for weird, niche privileges for women. Just for normal stuff that we've come to expect. Stuff that protects our privacy, dignity & safety. Like showering in prison without a man staring at us. It's your views that are peculiar. As someone who leafleted for FPFW I can tell you what the man and woman on the street thinks.

Be nice if we could get this to 5k by the end of the weekend!

If you are on twitter or wattsapp groups please share!

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

Rat has no idea what the man or woman on the street thinks from her lofty pomo worldview.

Nothing here to indicate anything Were, your last comment was vague and because I'm not telepathic unless you say explicitly what you are trying to survive I won't know. But your comment leads me to believe you are either an ex offender or transgender, I can understand your views with the latter but not the former.

But you did telepathically assume with your FYI comment that "they are true survivors and you are an embarrassment".
Your only source for that is that is that I disagree with you. And nope, I'm neither an ex offender or transgender.

But you did telepathically assume with your FYI comment that "they are true survivors and you are an embarrassment".

Yeah, this isn't about you then is it. As you are "neither an ex offender or transgender".

Signed. With respect Rat, I appreciate your view but I really cannot agree with you.

Your "feminism" is in my opinion an appropriation of the word. What you mean is "equalism".

That's woefully over simplistic.

However we're not playing on a level field.

No shit!

Feminism is a movement to liberate women from sex based oppression. So it seems your understanding isn't a universal one.

Do you know what oppression is? I even alluded to it in my last post. <a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=dictionary.cambridge.org/amp/english/oppression&ved=2ahUKEwigtdHrxLbeAhVKLcAKHUS6A1IQFjABegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw1lKKUl70oxacJU9vOmzOen&ampcf=1" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Here you go...

"a situation in which people are governed in an unfair and cruel way and prevented from having opportunities and freedom"

Liberating women from oppression is liberating women from INEQUALITY!!

That's feminism! That's not "equalism"!

Sorry to shout, but the clue is in the actual words you're using.

Feminism = liberation of women from oppression = equal treatment of and rights for women.

THAT'S FEMINISM

Alpaca, that's cool, we don't need to agree :) But I am becoming increasing frustrated at seeing one poster in particular inferring that anyone who disagrees with her is a misogynist. As she has done twice on this very thread, to the two posters who've spoken out in disagreement. I don't mean to get touchy about it but it's really starting to fuck me off. I totally respect and appreciate your disagreing with me

*Yeah, this isn't about you then is it. As you are "neither an ex offender or transgender".

Or interested in women's rights.

Mixed sex prisons and hospital wards offer no benefits to women, and for that reason I won't support them.

Its very telling that women are given no choice in the matter. It makes it clear who is and who isn't listened to.

Or interested in women's rights.

You don't appear to understand the concept of human rights, women's or otherwise Datun.

I'm sorry, but this constant assassination of any dissenter's feminism is too much for me not to argue the point.

You're like Trump proclaiming how much he loves America, and how he's going to do what's best for Americans. Real Americans. That anyone who doesn't agree is anti-American, and unpatriotic.

That's the spin you're using.

Genuinely, it scares me how much populist sway that has, because historically causes enlisting such rhetoric have ended very badly indeed...

You surround yourself with women who agree with you then say you speak for "women".

Except the women you like and speak up for are not women as a general group, they're just the tiny number who are your tribe.

Nope. It's 82% of the general population. There are 12 million unique users per month on mumsnet. One of the most popular boards is FWR.

The group of people who think women is a distinct group and should be allowed to define themselves its not niche. They are not a small tribe.

I don't surround myself with anyone. I talk on an open, public, Internet forum, just like anyone else. One that allows discussion.

Feminism is about women. It's for women, by women and centres women.

Some people really, really don't like that.

Genuinely, it scares me how much populist sway that has,

I thought you just said it was tiny, niche, and about a small tribe?!

With all due respect SpartacusAutisticusAHF, you've just demonstrated the same misunderstanding as Ereshkigal.

That link explains why liberation is not the same as being equal TO men.

I haven't said the feminism is women being equal to men.

Feminism is women having equal access to opportunities, equal share in societal benefits and responsibilities, equal humanity and equal human rights.

In other words, liberation from oppression, because oppression is an inequality in all of those things!

So please, with all due respect, both myself and every Liberal feminist you're likely to meet is well beyond thinking men and women should BE equal. We just understand what it means to be liberate from an unjust and unequal system. And that is called EQUALITY.

So thanks for the link, but.... I'm not 18 anymore.