To ask you to sign this petition about women's prisons

[kendoddsdadsdogsdead18]

You may remember recently the case of Karen White, who is physically a man but self id'ed as a women. White was sent to prison after carrying out a vicious attack and was subsequently housed in the female estate. Within days White raped 2 women and thank god, is now housed in the male estate.

However, there are simply no guarantees that this situation would not happen occur. If self id became the law over here, women in prison,l who are often vulnerable & as a group are statistically to be more likely to have experienced sexual assault will be most at risk. In Ireland where self id is already law transwomen are housed in the male estate. Over here, where self id isn't even law, we have gone one huge step further than Ireland by allowing fully in tact males into the female estate.

In prison showers and getting dressed is open and shared. Personally I could not imagine personally having to shower naked in front of a male bodied stranger. It's bad enough in front of women. I think it says a lot about a society that carefully considers the privacy, dignity and safety of it's most vulnerable members. As I understand it, there are currently male bodied prisoners in every female estate.

If you feel, as I do that prison rules should reviewed, please take a look at and sign this
petition.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

I thought you just said it was tiny, niche, and about a small tribe?!

The rhetoric, not your specific cause

Or can't you think of any other political movements which have used the same rhetoric?

I've already named two, but there's another biggy from 20th Century European history....

...meanwhile I'll campaign to keep male criminals, including sex offenders and paedophiles, out of female prisons.

You knock yourself out.

Crack on.

I think it has so much populist sway because it is linear, it's clear, it makes sense. There's no need to do complicated mental gymnastics to understand it.

Saying a woman is very much more likely to feel degraded if she has a shower in front of a male than another female (yep even a lesbian female, as was bizarrely mentioned earlier on in this thread) is clear & unlikely to be disputed by many. My mum would probably call anyone who disagreed a 'pervert', my husband would say 'crank.' I'm the product of female socialisation, so would say neither.

If you agree with my mum and my husband (probably the only thing they've ever agreed on). Please sign here:

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

Libfem has achieved all those equality aims and yet women are still oppressed.

No we haven't

We've done an awful lot though, us libfems, like starting rape crisis centres, all that jazz. We're doing good stuff.

Women are still oppressed precisely because we haven't achieved equality in those areas... because oppression MEANS inequality. I mean it literally means it, that's the definition of the word.

I wont support an ideology that sterilises gay and NGC children, or tells women they cant have women only spaces and services. It isn't feminist.

I think it has so much populist sway because it is linear, it's clear, it makes sense.

No, what has populist sway is, "I'm going to make america women great again the most righteous, the most protected, and the most free, regardless of what net inequality results, and anyone who disagrees with me is unpatriotic a misogynist".

It appeals to our pride, our fears and our tribalism.

And it can take us to very dark places if we forget that everyone is human, not just the humans like us.

And it can take us to very dark places if we forget that everyone is human, not just the humans like us.

Suggesting transwomen are housed in the vulnerable prisoners unit of the male estate isn't a 'dark place'.

No, what has populist sway is, "I'm going to make america women great again the most righteous, the most protected, and the most free, regardless of what net inequality results, and anyone who disagrees with me is unpatriotic a misogynist".

To take my words about a clear way to sensibly treat women with respect and dignity and put this stretch on it is quite flabbergasting! A sensible way to show respect to vulnerable women is not to elevate the rights of men over their's. You can argue up is down but you are fooling no one.

To take my words about a clear way to sensibly treat women with respect and dignity and put this stretch on it is quite flabbergasting!

Well no actually they were my words, which you used to speak about your own agenda. I just brought them back to the context in which I had originally used them.

I was obviously pretty flabbergasted when you appropriated my words in order to push your agenda, but seeing as words don't actually belong to people I managed to contain my emotions.

Jaysus, Rat, are you actually waving around the fascist/populist accusation against a petition for women to be safe in prison? I don't give a crap if you call yourself a feminist and what brand or version, how can you possibly be railing against this?

Ey Ey! Rat I own the agenda on ere mate. It's my thread. I'll push my agenda wherever I see fit.

If anyone sane wants to assist my agenda pushing please sign! 😀😀💪💪

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767

Feminism is about women. It's for women, by women and centres women.

Some people really, really don't like that.

This this this this this.

THIS.

No you don't get to repurpose it as an "all lives matter" movement. Find another fucking term.

I wont support an ideology that sterilises gay and NGC children, or tells women they cant have women only spaces and services. It isn't feminist.

No, you're right. It isn't.

Feminism is women having equal access to opportunities, equal share in societal benefits and responsibilities, equal humanity and equal human rights.

Which you have an utterly fucked up idea about. Arguably. Happy to argue it.

Crikey. The petition is asking for prison guidance to be reviewed - reviewed, that's all - because women were sexually attacked in prison.

Why would anyone want to argue against that? I've signed, thanks for this thread OP.

I really don't care if feminism excludes males. Its supposed to. Feminism is for females.

I'm sorry, but this constant assassination of any dissenter's feminism is too much for me not to argue the point.

I'd call it the Andrea Leadsom fallacy.

I don't surround myself with anyone. I talk on an open, public, Internet forum, just like anyone else. One that allows discussion.

OK, well, from my perspective, once you've disagreed with the dominant thinking on FWR, you are subject to a permanent "if you're not with us you're against us" grudge, character assassination and generally some of the most touchy and mean-spirited arguing I've ever seen. It's a characteristic of fundamentalism, it's poor logic and it's also simply ineffective as PR.

OK, well, from my perspective, once you've disagreed with the dominant thinking on FWR, you are subject to a permanent "if you're not with us you're against us" grudge, character assassination and generally some of the most touchy and mean-spirited arguing I've ever seen. It's a characteristic of fundamentalism, it's poor logic and it's also simply ineffective as PR.

I'm always more than happy for others to disagree and put forward their reasoning. It's very useful.

In practice I don't see how it can be because I see much more effort going into aggressively misconstruing and discrediting people's reasoning than trying understand it.

Then explain your position rather than making cheap shots.

Crikey. The petition is asking for prison guidance to be reviewed - reviewed, that's all - because women were sexually attacked in prison.

Why would anyone want to argue against that?

I'm not arguing with the idea of reviewing something, which patently seems reasonable.

I'm asking people to think about whether they agree or not with what the group asking for it actually wants, which is NOT simply "review".

You how Britain First used to (still do?) put up photos and memes or whatever on Facebook, and they were always the kind of thing that was perfectly reasonable and that basically everyone could agree with? "if you think Britain's soldiers deserve recognition, like and share!" or "if you think we should support our armed forces, like and share!". And in that way they could get thousands of likes and shares to their reasonable petitions memes, all the while pushing a far more extreme agenda. Don't you remember this on Facebook?? Seeing a friend sharing a" Britain First" post, and the string of comments saying "hang on, so you know what Britain First stand for? Do you agree with that??"

This is not a new tactic. The petition wording is deliberately "reasonable", so as to levy the "Britain First on Facebook" effect.

I own the agenda on ere mate

Yeah, that's fair actually ken