AIBU to think you should sign this petition to ask the government to consult with women about Self ID?

[MIngerDynasty]

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

Your details remain private, I don't want to start yet another trans thread but I thnk we can all agree that there needs to be more discussion with the people affected by the changes in law!

How does people being oppressed due to their race disprove women are oppressed due to their sex?

Elendon I've said nothing that relates to the public order act, are you talking to someone else?

carryon and theshitty, no, you misunderstand me. Our biology is used as a stick to beat us with, but it's not necessarily why. So when people trot out that line as a justification for anything - even reasonable sex segregation - it irks me. Because it is not an accepted fact. So it makes a pretty flimsy justification.

Excellent post Truscum but I doubt many of those who purport to speak for you will bother to acknowledge it

Thank you everyone As is ever the case I am invisible to all it seems apart from the brilliant posters here and who inhabit the feminist board.

I’ve found I’ve had to get a lot blunter to try to get through to the people insisting they are suppressing free speech and debate on my behalf.

TERF obviously the oppressed females all have their female biology in common. That's rather circular, don't you think?

Ok rat - so why do YOU think women are oppressed?

@Truscum 👏 👏 👏

transgender does not include crossdressing

Just to emphasise the point- YES IT DOES. Stonewall's definition makes it very clear. Please don't call me ignorant when you are posting things without even a cursory google of the current definition and telling transexuals they aren't allowed to define themselves as such (but we should all accept 'cis' because you say so).

Yes, it's the fault of some LGBT groups that this has become an issue. Instead of trans meaning transexual it means anyone who ever put on a pair of frilly knickers. When women used to come home to their partner wanking in their panties we didn't call them "opressed trans" people.

If you question it at all just google "truescum" and look at the absolute abuse being given to any actual transexuals out there.

Transexuals are not pushing this.

Straight women aren't pushing this.

Gay men aren't pushing this except for Owen Jones

Lesbians sure as shit aren't pushing this.

So why are these groups who have traditionally been opressed suddenly becoing nasty bigots?

As is ever the case I am invisible to all it seems apart from the brilliant posters here and who inhabit the feminist board.

Nah you are a legend.

Signed.

As ever, handmaidens (or TRAs) are stomping all over the thread trying to shut women down and tell us that "transwomen are women". They always fail to acknowledge the fantastic thoughtful posts by people like TruScum. Strange, isn't it.

That'll teach me for posting when I had only up to page 4

Chief that's an argument for another day, but I outlined my rough position here. But like I say, let's not get distracted, I'm just saying it's not a watertight justification, and yet it's trotted out like it is.

Elendon, please read my earlier response to Frequency; I'm fairly well informed I think, as well as most at least I would say. I have pointed out why those concerns are not affected by seld-ID. Are there any other concerns anybody would like to air?

why does self-ID help, is the opposite angle to your question, in that case? Why is there such a push for self-ID, if none of it affects anything anyway?

Nosquirrels I believe self-ID was proposed as the current system of obtaining a GRC is considered to be overly medicalised, demeaning and off-puttingly long, forcing transpeople to jump through degrading and ultimately meaningless hoops to simply achieve a GRC. And that making that process less arduous should have no impact on anyone else because of the exemptions already provided for in the Equalities Act.

There is no difference between the radical feminist perspective of gender and the agender or non binary person's other that the non binary person thinks they are special.

But for some reason all the hate is reserved for feminists.

WHAT A SURPRISE.

carryon I just linked to my opinion in the above response to Chief

I will be reporting all speech both in person and online that refers to me as “cis” to the police. I consider it othering and a form of hate speech.

brilliant . absolutely spot on

Signed and shared on Twitter

You mean the exemptions that currently allow prisoners with penises and sexual abuse records in women's prisons?

Or the ones that allow for all women shortlists?

Or the ones that allow women's aid to not hire males?

Can you not honestly see why some of us don't want to make things easier and lose more ground?

@Truscum 👏👏👏👏

I don't see an issue with the current system being 'difficult'. I think if you are changing legal sex with all that entails there ought to be some gatekeeping. The removal of medical oversight also has the potential to leave those with genuine dyshoria without much needed support.

Anyway, I do appriciate the bumping whatever your opinion!

I don't see an issue with the current system being 'difficult'. I think if you are changing legal sex with all that entails there ought to be some gatekeeping.

This seems so obvious doesn't it?
Especially when so many young women are transitioning as teenagers during a very volatile time in their lives and when social contagion is a risk.

Signed.

Rat it is our biology that makes us vulnerable to abuse though. We are prevented from full economic participation when pregnant/ looking after children, we are more suseptable to attack because of size/ muscle differences. We are subjugated within the medical system because of our different medical needs which are woefully underfunded (e.g. pre and post natal mental health care).
We need specific legislation to protect against harm which directly results from our biological differences.
Although gender is indeed, I would argue, a social construct. It is absolutely a powerful force and therefore creates inequity in itself but this does not negate the need for us to be able to discuss and protect our biology.
This means that biological women need to be recognised as a unique group and the inclusion of MIT people within this group does neither sector any favours as we have different problems to address.
This is not to say that the trans community shouldn't be allowed to campaign for what they need but this should not be at the expense of another subjugated group nor should they try to dominate an existing feminist movement and co-opt it with their own demands. This is like writing to 'Help the Aged' and aggressively asking what they've ever done to help children.

I agree stitch.

Did I miss someone attempting to suppress free speech Truscum? I'm all up for debate - actively enjoy it - I'm just worried people are conflating the self-ID issue with wider issues that they would like addressed. Refuges for example. The question of refuge access isn't one of self-ID, it's one of refuge policy and enacting the Equalities Act, surely?

overly medicalised compared to what? Gently, somewhat, non?

forcing transpeople to jump through degrading and ultimately meaningless hoops to simply achieve a GRC.

I had to jump through degrading and meaningless hoops to get my son a full statement of SEN. I even had to sit on a parents session which was run by Christians and I am an agnostic.

Plus some trans people get physical and mental relief from going through surgery. Yet you deem this to be degrading

RatRolyPoly

I could go on. But I have work to do.

Well said, Truscum. I can't stand that lazy, lying mantra 'Transwomen are women' bullshit either.