AIBU to think you should sign this petition to ask the government to consult with women about Self ID?

[MIngerDynasty]

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

Your details remain private, I don't want to start yet another trans thread but I thnk we can all agree that there needs to be more discussion with the people affected by the changes in law!

@MIngerDynasty hate to break it to you but you're increasingly in the majority if you don't accept that sex and gender aren't the same thing and don't always correspond.

Also can't understand why PP thinks her lesbian daughter will accidentally think she's a trans man unless she doesn't understand the difference between gender and sexual orientation (in which case you have a big learning curve ahead of you)

We've been there, done that, thanks. Luckily I managed to convince her that it is okay to be a lesbian woman who likes wearing men's clothes and that she doesn't need to self-id as a man to be accepted and loved.

But that's not what I meant in my previous post. Are you not aware that young lesbian's have been pressured into having sex with pre-op transwomen and have been labelled transphobic, ostracised from their social circles and received death threats online when they've refused to have intercourse with someone who has a fully intact penis?

Google "Cotton Ceiling" it's terrifying from a parent's prospective.

It's not about who uses which restroom or what Mary down the road has between her legs, it's about protecting vulnerable women.

Fugitive how do you know the majority of people are in favour of self ID please? I'm interested because I see many, many trans folk arguing against it (generally those with dysphoria who feel they are being thrown under a bus). Also every media article that clearly outlines the reality of self ID has comments underneath that are overwhelmingly against it. The only support of it I see are from TRAs and those who don't understand what it actually means and are trying to be supportive so say things like 'I doubt any man would go through so much effort to transition for bad reasons' not realising until it is pointed out to them that under self ID zero effort is required.

I find the term cis abusive and hateful. It's actually to me a hate crime and comes under the definition of a hate crime.

www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-courts/discrimination/hate-crime/what-are-hate-incidents-and-hate-crime/

Wow. Some people get really angry when women try to protect their rights. And they act like we are unreasonable. WTF is that all about?

Got to wonder about their motivations

@Elendon nothing in that information you linked to would suggest that referring to someone as cis is a hate crime. It's a descriptor in the way that trans is (or black, or gay, or disabled).

It is very obviously not the equivalent of words which do fall under hate crime legislation (such as fg, rtard, or p**i)

Women are not oppressed on the basis of their 'gender' they are oppressed on the basis of the material reality of their biological sex.

To say otherwise suggests that women can 'identify' out of their oppression. Which is incredibly offensive.

This is why sex needs to remain a protected characteristic.

I can only define as a woman if the definition is XX woman with a vagina. If you change it no longer includes me and probably more females than transwomen.

Why do you think I don't matter?

Signed and shared

Fugitive there are many transwomen who refer to themselves as transsexuals as they prefer to differentiate themselves (dysphoria, transitioned with surgery) to the massively broad 'transgender' definition that includes various people such as cross dressers. Are they wrong to use their preferred term to describe themselves?

@TERFragetteCity sex and gender not the same thing. Gender doesn't always correspond with biological sex

I am very well aware of that. How does a biological man metamorphose into a women. I must have missed that scientific breakthrough. Thanks.

Signed and shared.

Thank you for posting on AIBU.

Got to wonder about their motivation

To be honest asking questions like "how will this affect you" almost makes her sound like a set up for us to get in a debate as it's so very obvious.

I am supportive of trans people. I actually don't care who pisses next to me either. But I am alarmed by the idea that the law could change so that biological sex will be superceded by self-identified "gender", and that essential women's spaces/categories will become non-existent. It's not about me, but it is about the rights of women.

This.

OP, YANBU

Here are examples of hate crimes:

assaults
criminal damage
harassment
murder
sexual assault
theft
fraud
burglary
hate mail (Malicious Communications Act 1988)
causing harassment, alarm or distress (Public Order Act 1986).

Calling me cis causes me alarm and distress. @fugitivefrombrusstice

It's a descriptor in the way that trans is (or black, or gay, or disabled).

No its not - all of those things describe what you are, 'cis' describes what you are not.

I am a woman. I am not 'not a man who identifies as a woman' which is what 'cis woman' means.

YANBU.

I don't want my girl guiding daughter to unknowingly sharing a tent with a boy who thinks he's a girl.

I want my daughters to have the right to ask for a female with a female body to do their smear tests.

If my daughter ends up in a refuge scared of men I want her to be in a male-body free space.

This isn't about being anti-trans. This is about the rights of trans people not overriding the rights of women to have certain spaces single sex for their privacy and protection.

If you think the danger is that men will pretend to be trans women, fake a history of domestic violence, attain a place in a DV shelter and then rape other women there, surely you understand that it isn't the fault of trans women if men rape women and surely ALL women, trans or otherwise, would be better standing together in solidarity against sexual predators?

I cannot get my head around what you're saying here, Fugitive. You appear to be saying that because men commit violent sexual offences against women, the victims of those men should be trusting enough of all men who say they are women to be prepared to stand in solidarity with them and ... do what? How are they going to stand against sexual predators from this already vulnerable position? Why can't there be women-only shelters and all-gender shelters for victims of abuse?

Am a women. You don’t need to put words of front of woman to describe that

Fugitive why do you want to let anyone self ID and not just transexuals?

I have just shared this in a closed women's group in Facebook.

@stitchglitched transgender does NOT include cross dressing. You're mistaking your own ignorance for virtue.

@minger I don't understand what you're trying to say

I actually don't care about people signing this petition and I don't have an issue with there being a consultation on self-ID

Oh well that's alright then, its nice to agree on stuff

Signed and also emailed to my local ( female Labour MP)

Just letting you all know I am going back to work now (don't want anyone to think they've somehow scared me off or won the argument)