AIBU to think you should sign this petition to ask the government to consult with women about Self ID?

[MIngerDynasty]

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/214118

Your details remain private, I don't want to start yet another trans thread but I thnk we can all agree that there needs to be more discussion with the people affected by the changes in law!

@Dalek
Why just consult women? Why not men too?

Men have been consulted, don't you worry.

Everything NoSquirrels posted, I second.

And I've signed. Not sure about facebook sharing though.

I think people just don't understand what 'self id' actually means, and what it's logical conclusion is.

Men have been consulted, don't you worry.

Oh won't someone please just think about the men!

Poor fuckers, no one asks their opinion on anything. :(

Really NoSquirrels so they have sent a letter to every male in the country asking for their opinions have they?

Why do you think trans women in shelters are more of a risk than cis women?

If you think the danger is that men will pretend to be trans women, fake a history of domestic violence, attain a place in a DV shelter and then rape other women there, surely you understand that it isn't the fault of trans women if men rape women and surely ALL women, trans or otherwise, would be better standing together in solidarity against sexual predators?

Also can't understand why PP thinks her lesbian daughter will accidentally think she's a trans man unless she doesn't understand the difference between gender and sexual orientation (in which case you have a big learning curve ahead of you)

I actually don't care about people signing this petition and I don't have an issue with there being a consultation on self-ID because I know that the majority of people are in favour of it and it might put the issue to rest. But I am sick of every day seeing a new thread pop up on MN and the same lazy, pearl-clutching, dishonest, disingenuous arguments being thrown around by women who can't see that extending rights to others doesn't mean losing your own. Throughout history we've seen the same pattern before any major social change where people are fearful and think that rights are a zero sum game where someone must lose for another to win.

Signed and shared. Thank you.

It's pretty sad that a petition is even needed to request that women be listened to, it ought to be a given that 50% of the population are consulted about something that impacts on them so much. Signed anyway and those against it are basically saying that they object to women being given a voice.

Because I think if you're going to be the person who starts YET ANOTHER thread and contributes to the generally hostile atmosphere on MN, the least you can do is accept the work of defending a position that many of us consider to be prejudiced and largely indefensible. But I appreciate that stoking outrage is more satisfying than having a debate hmm

I don't need to defend a position thanks, I'm allowed to question my rights being risked. My daughter's rights.

It's actually obvious to most people why letting a male say "I'm a woman" and requiring women to accept that is a safety issue.

I wholly support the rights of transexuals and am more than happy to share space with those who have dysphoria and have their penises removed. I feel like that shows commitment to the cause.

I do not support allowing males who present as males but claim to be women do whatever they want.

Why do you think trans women in shelters are more of a risk than cis women?

Do you honestly not understand why a woman in a refuge/rape crisis centre might feel uncomfortable/upset/terrified around someone who is male? Seriously?

And you think if self id goes through and she is not allowed to voice that discomfort because it is discriminatory, that is OK?

Do you think we should just do away with sex segregation in sports, prisons, refuges altogether then? If anyone can self id, why bother segregating by sex in the first place?

Transsexuals hasn't been acceptable terminology for literally years

Erm - the PP didn't say her lesbian daughter might think she's a transman

She was referring to the fact that lesbians have faced accusations of being bigoted because they don't want to sleep with transwomen. Even the ones who still have fully functioning cocks "lady penises". When surely the whole point of sex for a lesbian is that you are attracted to WOMEN, not people with penises!

Hi Frequency, just on the impact self-ID would potentially have...

If they committed a crime and were imprisoned for it, I don't want them to be sharing a cell with 'a lady penis'

People with a GRC are currently eligible to be housed in female prisons, however they can be housed in the male estate - as can any woman - if they are deemed to present a significant risk. If one could self-ID to obtain one's GRC, nothing about that would change. You could still be housed in the male estate if you posed a risk.

I don't want my lesbian daughter to feel pressured into fucking a 'lady penis' lest she be branded transphobic and bullied online and in her social circle

Not sure how being able to self-ID for a GRC would make any difference to the pressures women feel in this day and age to give up their bodily autonomy for anyone who wants to have sex with them. It happens a lot though doesn't it?

I don't want my sporting daughter to be competing against MtF transwomen who are physically larger, stronger and faster than her.

Currently the GRA has a specific exception that means those with a GRC are still subject to exclusions regarding sport. Each sports governing body has their own criteria - set by themselves with the aim of achieving safety and competitiveness (i.e. no forgone conclusion) - for those who would compete. Those governing bodies may or may not have struck the right balance at this point, but being able to self-ID to obtain a GRC would not change those criteria, or that those with a GRC would have to satisfy them.

I don't want either of my daughters to end up in women's shelters, but if they do, I want to know that there won't be any 'lady penises' sharing their space when they are vulnerable and frightened.

Women's shelters are also able to use the exclusions in the GRA to exclude those who were not born women - they would still be able to do so if self-ID were brought in. In truth many of them it would seem choose not to do so. In fact to my knowledge most don't require anyone to show a birth certificate to access services, cutting out the "having a GRC" part of the equation all together, essentially meaning they're already self-ID. That might not be a great idea - you might want to petition them to change that.

I hope that helps.

fugitive I don’t consider myself pearl clutching because I don’t want my teenage daughter to have to compete in sport against biological males. I have never been raped or sexually abused so personally I can’t get too worked up about a penis being in a designated female only space. But a lot of women who have been have said they do have a problem with it, so it is obviously an issue.

But I am sick of every day seeing a new thread pop up on MN and the same lazy, pearl-clutching, dishonest, disingenuous arguments being thrown around by women who can't see that extending rights to others doesn't mean losing your own.

Can you explain the process of how men turn into women. Thank you.

Menawhile - signed.

@Iminthecclubnow I consider trans women to be women.

the same lazy, pearl-clutching, dishonest, disingenuous arguments being thrown around by women who can't see that extending rights to others doesn't mean losing your own

But in this case extending the "right to be called a woman" to anyone, regardless of their biological sex, does absolutely mean losing our own hard-fought rights.

Why do we have sex-segregated spaces in the first place?
Why do we no longer need them?

Why can't we all have a "third-space" option? You, me and all the trans folk can frequent those - I'll be right in there. Women who for whatever reason would prefer to stay with other biological women can have their own space. Men ditto.

That wouldn't "other" anyone, neither would it deprive anyone of any rights. Win-win.

I do rather object to being told I am lazy, pearl-clutching, disingenuous and dishonest.

As you well know fugitive, there have been transexuals in prison for sexually abusing women. I'm not going to stand in solidarity with someone who thinks penises are female because that's utterly bonkers.

Also, who is cis? I don't identify with and gender, so I am not. I don't think most women do either. Please don't misgender them.

Signed - thanks

I consider trans women to be women

That's fab. Can you explain how that happens. Thanks

it isn't the fault of trans women if men rape women

It's not the fault of women either. So how come they are the ones who are expected to move over and let male bodied people into female only spaces?

I consider trans women to be women.

I can consider flowers to be bees, but I can't expect the rest of the world to accept my definition.

@TERFragetteCity sex and gender not the same thing. Gender doesn't always correspond with biological sex.

I consider trans women to be women.

On what basis? Who gets to redefine what 'woman' means?

Am not a cis woman