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Pedants' corner

Just been sent this Giles Coren thing - thought I'd share with MN :) (Can't decide whether to applaud or stick pins in him)

227 replies

JustineMumsnet · 23/07/2008 23:40

As sent to Times subs...

Chaps,
I am mightily pissed off. I have addressed this to Owen, Amanda and Ben
because I don't know who i am supposed to be pissed off with (i'm assuming
owen, but i filed to amanda and ben so it's only fair), and also to Tony,
who wasn't here - if he had been I'm guessing it wouldn't have happened.
I don't really like people tinkering with my copy for the sake of
tinkering. I do not enjoy the suggestion that you have a better ear or eye
for how I want my words to read than I do. Owen, we discussed your turning
three of my long sentences into six short ones in a single piece, and how
that wasn't going to happen anymore, so I'm really hoping it wasn't you
that fucked up my review on saturday.
It was the final sentence. Final sentences are very, very important. A
piece builds to them, they are the little jingle that the reader takes with
him into the weekend.
I wrote: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of
rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to
each other, and wondering where to go for a nosh."
it appeared as: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a
glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling
gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for nosh."
There is no length issue. This is someone thinking "I'll just remove this
indefinite article because Coren is an illiterate cunt and i know best".
Well, you fucking don't.
This was shit, shit sub-editing for three reasons.

  1. 'Nosh', as I'm sure you fluent Yiddish speakers know, is a noun formed from a bastardisation of the German 'naschen'. It is a verb, and can be construed into two distinct nouns. One, 'nosh', means simply 'food'. You have decided that this is what i meant and removed the 'a'. I am insulted enough that you think you have a better ear for English than me. But a better ear for Yiddish? I doubt it. Because the other noun, 'nosh' means "a session of eating" - in this sense you might think of its dual valency as being similar to that of 'scoff'. you can go for a scoff. or you can buy some scoff. the sentence you left me with is shit, and is not what i meant. Why would you change a sentnece aso that it meant something i didn't mean? I don't know, but you risk doing it every time you change something. And the way you avoid this kind of fuck up is by not changing a word of my copy without asking me, okay? it's easy. Not. A. Word. Ever.
  2. I will now explain why your error is even more shit than it looks. You see, i was making a joke. I do that sometimes. I have set up the street as "sexually-charged". I have described the shenanigans across the road at G.A.Y.. I have used the word 'gaily' as a gentle nudge. And "looking for a nosh" has a secondary meaning of looking for a blowjob. Not specifically gay, for this is soho, and there are plenty of girls there who take money for noshing boys. "looking for nosh" does not have that ambiguity. the joke is gone. I only wrote that sodding paragraph to make that joke. And you've fucking stripped it out like a pissed Irish plasterer restoring a renaissance fresco and thinking jesus looks shit with a bear so plastering over it. You might as well have removed the whole paragraph. I mean, fucking christ, don't you read the copy?
  3. And worst of all. Dumbest, deafest, shittest of all, you have removed the unstressed 'a' so that the stress that should have fallen on "nosh" is lost, and my piece ends on an unstressed syllable. When you're winding up a piece of prose, metre is crucial. Can't you hear? Can't you hear that it is wrong? It's not fucking rocket science. It's fucking pre-GCSE scansion. I have written 350 restaurant reviews for The Times and i have never ended on an unstressed syllable. Fuck. fuck, fuck, fuck. I am sorry if this looks petty (last time i mailed a Times sub about the change of a single word i got in all sorts of trouble) but i care deeply about my work and i hate to have it fucked up by shit subbing. I have been away, you've been subbing joe and hugo and maybe they just file and fuck off and think "hey ho, it's tomorrow's fish and chips" - well, not me. I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours. weird, maybe. but that's how it is. It strips me of all confidence in writing for the magazine. No exaggeration. i've got a review to write this morning and i really don't feel like doing it, for fear that some nuance is going to be removed from the final line, the pay-off, and i'm going to have another weekend ruined for me. I've been writing for The Times for 15 years and i have never asked this before - i have never asked it of anyone i have written for - but I must insist, from now on, that i am sent a proof of every review i do, in pdf format, so i can check it for fuck-ups. and i must be sent it in good time in case changes are needed. It is the only way i can carry on in the job. And, just out of interest, I'd like whoever made that change to email me and tell me why. Tell me the exact reasoning which led you to remove that word from my copy. Right, Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose. All the best Giles
OP posts:
WideWebWitch · 24/07/2008 16:51

Dada, so what was he saying "I'm GILES COREN" ? Now I am thinking he's an arse, who walks down the phone bellowing about who they are?(the kind of person who can get apoplectic about the letter 'a' I suppose)

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 17:31

was he wearing a T shirt that said "I'm Giles Coren' on the front

on the back did it say 'fancy a nosh?'

bundle · 24/07/2008 17:34

did you see Gordon Ramsay gave Jon Snow a "Now Fuck Off Out of My Kitchen" tie on the f-word

from the Giles Coren school of accessories..

bundle · 24/07/2008 17:36

"fancy a Nosh", surely Capp?

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 17:38

no not 'fancy a nosh'

because if the 'a' was in bold the T-shirt would be in danger of ending on an unstressed syllable

bundle · 24/07/2008 17:47

oops

consider myself corrected
in an unstressed way

LongLiveGreenElizabeth · 24/07/2008 18:16

Pedantic arse or not, he is strangely attractive. I know he's gay, but gay, straight, rectangular, never gonna meet him, or edit his work..... so, yeah, Unquiet Dad, you can shag him and tell me what it was like. God, no, actually,...

LongLiveGreenElizabeth · 24/07/2008 18:18

btw, somebody, scootersmum, I will out her, admitted to fancying David Cameron, so I don't feel at all weird or deviant in comparison.

morningpaper · 24/07/2008 20:33

I AGREE WITH GILES

also, I would give him a nosh

not food, you understand. I don't mean food

justaboutagrownup · 25/07/2008 07:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

meridian · 25/07/2008 12:57

pmsl at this thread... .. not read his resturant reviews but that letter is brillianly wank-tastic... he is right but he just sounds like he should be on mumsnet having a moan..

and I agree that he did look rather noshful in his regency britches...

Cappuccino · 25/07/2008 14:34

oh morningpaper fgs

are you constantly ovulating?

please supply list of men who you would not couple with by 5pm

morningpaper · 25/07/2008 14:44

Russell Brand
Eddie Izzard
Max Clifford
Most men under about 40

morningpaper · 25/07/2008 14:45

(I did struggle there until I remembered that I don't like young men)

BoysAreLikeDogs · 25/07/2008 14:46

Ooooh yes, Eddie Izzard, especially when riffing on Cake or Death

OsmosisBanana · 25/07/2008 14:46

I love GC. He's on my 'list'.

BoysAreLikeDogs · 25/07/2008 14:47

Ozzy, who else is on your list?

[nosey]

Cappuccino · 25/07/2008 14:48

it's not a very big list is it mp?

it has THREE people on it and one of them is Max Clifford

Izzard was fine 10 years ago but not now

morningpaper · 25/07/2008 14:49

ermmmmm

There are LOADS of men under 40

That's like a list of a BILLION

charliegal · 25/07/2008 14:49

Oh god, I love Charles Campion.

Agree that the nosh joke is horrible and unfunny. If I was him, I would have been embarrassed to spell that part out.

Someone explain the unstressed syllable thing to me?

morningpaper · 25/07/2008 14:51

WAIT

Jimmy Carr no no no

also Jim Carrey

OsmosisBanana · 25/07/2008 14:52

It's a list of one.

I can't remember. Used to be the classics, Brad Pitt, Jonny Depp, etc etc but they aren't grubby enough any more. Will have to make a new list.

The only other contender is the Dr I saw in A&E last week but DH probably wouldn't allow him!

charliegal · 25/07/2008 14:53

Giles Coren is gay?

He's not gay!

motherinferior · 25/07/2008 14:53

Jeeezlouise, I write my copy, I hand my copy to subs, I trouser the money. End of. What's his problem?

OsmosisBanana · 25/07/2008 14:54

He isn't gay. No way.