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Pedants' corner

Just been sent this Giles Coren thing - thought I'd share with MN :) (Can't decide whether to applaud or stick pins in him)

227 replies

JustineMumsnet · 23/07/2008 23:40

As sent to Times subs...

Chaps,
I am mightily pissed off. I have addressed this to Owen, Amanda and Ben
because I don't know who i am supposed to be pissed off with (i'm assuming
owen, but i filed to amanda and ben so it's only fair), and also to Tony,
who wasn't here - if he had been I'm guessing it wouldn't have happened.
I don't really like people tinkering with my copy for the sake of
tinkering. I do not enjoy the suggestion that you have a better ear or eye
for how I want my words to read than I do. Owen, we discussed your turning
three of my long sentences into six short ones in a single piece, and how
that wasn't going to happen anymore, so I'm really hoping it wasn't you
that fucked up my review on saturday.
It was the final sentence. Final sentences are very, very important. A
piece builds to them, they are the little jingle that the reader takes with
him into the weekend.
I wrote: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of
rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to
each other, and wondering where to go for a nosh."
it appeared as: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a
glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling
gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for nosh."
There is no length issue. This is someone thinking "I'll just remove this
indefinite article because Coren is an illiterate cunt and i know best".
Well, you fucking don't.
This was shit, shit sub-editing for three reasons.

  1. 'Nosh', as I'm sure you fluent Yiddish speakers know, is a noun formed from a bastardisation of the German 'naschen'. It is a verb, and can be construed into two distinct nouns. One, 'nosh', means simply 'food'. You have decided that this is what i meant and removed the 'a'. I am insulted enough that you think you have a better ear for English than me. But a better ear for Yiddish? I doubt it. Because the other noun, 'nosh' means "a session of eating" - in this sense you might think of its dual valency as being similar to that of 'scoff'. you can go for a scoff. or you can buy some scoff. the sentence you left me with is shit, and is not what i meant. Why would you change a sentnece aso that it meant something i didn't mean? I don't know, but you risk doing it every time you change something. And the way you avoid this kind of fuck up is by not changing a word of my copy without asking me, okay? it's easy. Not. A. Word. Ever.
  2. I will now explain why your error is even more shit than it looks. You see, i was making a joke. I do that sometimes. I have set up the street as "sexually-charged". I have described the shenanigans across the road at G.A.Y.. I have used the word 'gaily' as a gentle nudge. And "looking for a nosh" has a secondary meaning of looking for a blowjob. Not specifically gay, for this is soho, and there are plenty of girls there who take money for noshing boys. "looking for nosh" does not have that ambiguity. the joke is gone. I only wrote that sodding paragraph to make that joke. And you've fucking stripped it out like a pissed Irish plasterer restoring a renaissance fresco and thinking jesus looks shit with a bear so plastering over it. You might as well have removed the whole paragraph. I mean, fucking christ, don't you read the copy?
  3. And worst of all. Dumbest, deafest, shittest of all, you have removed the unstressed 'a' so that the stress that should have fallen on "nosh" is lost, and my piece ends on an unstressed syllable. When you're winding up a piece of prose, metre is crucial. Can't you hear? Can't you hear that it is wrong? It's not fucking rocket science. It's fucking pre-GCSE scansion. I have written 350 restaurant reviews for The Times and i have never ended on an unstressed syllable. Fuck. fuck, fuck, fuck. I am sorry if this looks petty (last time i mailed a Times sub about the change of a single word i got in all sorts of trouble) but i care deeply about my work and i hate to have it fucked up by shit subbing. I have been away, you've been subbing joe and hugo and maybe they just file and fuck off and think "hey ho, it's tomorrow's fish and chips" - well, not me. I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours. weird, maybe. but that's how it is. It strips me of all confidence in writing for the magazine. No exaggeration. i've got a review to write this morning and i really don't feel like doing it, for fear that some nuance is going to be removed from the final line, the pay-off, and i'm going to have another weekend ruined for me. I've been writing for The Times for 15 years and i have never asked this before - i have never asked it of anyone i have written for - but I must insist, from now on, that i am sent a proof of every review i do, in pdf format, so i can check it for fuck-ups. and i must be sent it in good time in case changes are needed. It is the only way i can carry on in the job. And, just out of interest, I'd like whoever made that change to email me and tell me why. Tell me the exact reasoning which led you to remove that word from my copy. Right, Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose. All the best Giles
OP posts:
ExterminAitch · 24/07/2008 12:47

despite the terminology, a sub is a sub, not an editor. they are lowly members of staff, not hi-falutin' eds, and not unnaccustomed to being spoken down to. it really is a cracking job, by the way, i loved it.

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 13:42

oh yes bang on about the prep schooling

I think the sentence should have been altered completely, preferably by a Yorkshireman to

"I can't think of a grander place to allock this spring over a pint of best and watch t'lads and lasses in t'street ahtside mekkin eyn at
one other, and wondering where to go for some snap."

obviously the snap is a hilarious pun, meaning as it does both a light meal and a game of cards

Nighbynight · 24/07/2008 13:43

lolol

just read Cappucino's description of Giles Coren as "one man and his 'a' "

brilliant (and far less wordy than coren's attempt at humour)

youknownothingofthecrunch · 24/07/2008 13:48

"a bite" would have worked much better and still retained the subtext.

I hate the word "nosh".

theSuburbanDryad · 24/07/2008 13:50

Bite/blow job?

Owch!!

Habbibu · 24/07/2008 13:51

But then Giles couldn't have pulled the "not only do I know more about English than you, you under-schooled trollop, but you have dared question my understanding of Yiddish etymology". Have to say, his linguistic description of that matter was clunky at best, and ungrammatical at worst. Tsk tsk, Giles.

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 13:52

yes also it would have brought in lots of exciting ideas about vampires and the Rocky Horror show

'nosh' indeed

bagsforlife · 24/07/2008 14:25

On a completely different tack, does anyone remember him strangely fronting the ad campaign for Birds Eye frozen foods a while ago? Seems to have mysteriously disappeared from that....

PuppyMonkey · 24/07/2008 14:27

I saw this on Guardian - it's one of the funniest thing I've ever read! Totally sympathise, let's just say...

Habbibu · 24/07/2008 14:29

Do journos not get proofs as standard, then? Oh, the heady speed of the newspaper world.

ExterminAitch · 24/07/2008 14:29
PuppyMonkey · 24/07/2008 14:35

LOL

DaDaDa · 24/07/2008 14:36

Oddly enough he's just walked up the street behind me, blethering on his mobile; 'Yah, Giles Coren, yadda yadda'. Just round the corner from Old Compton Street, so perhaps he'd been for a quick nosh bite?

For those who find him attractive, I can report that he's a bit of a hobbit.

theSuburbanDryad · 24/07/2008 14:37

Does he have hairy feet DaDaDa?

MrsBadger · 24/07/2008 14:47

I do seem to remember him being surprisingly short

jamescagney · 24/07/2008 14:51

thanks DaDaDa, i was starting to find him attractive, you have cured me!
"one man and his a (rse)"

DaDaDa · 24/07/2008 14:59

Now Charles Campion... there's a hunka burning love.

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 15:06

hang on

Giles Coren is following you around?

MsDemeanor · 24/07/2008 16:14

I'm actually pretty dismayed that so many people think that it's ok for an up his arse 'star' writer to talk to someone who earns a fraction of his salary like that.
Would ANYONE on this thread appreciate an email like that about them sent to their workplace? Being called names and sworn at? For something utterly and totally trivial? I have worked for many of the biggest, most famous publications in this country, and nobody has ever spoken to me like this and I wouldn't dream of speaking to anyone like this.
He is a nasty, vindictive little shit. And the 'a' made no difference at all. NObody on earth noticed the change except poor precious Giles. Actually, I think 'some nosh' would have sounded better.

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 16:19

"I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours."

I think the bloke needs some kids. He clearly has little else going on, and he gets too much sleep

DaDaDa · 24/07/2008 16:23

"Giles Coren is following you around?"

Yes, in his hobbity shorts. I think I've lost him now though.

[still mulling over significance of hairy feet UD...]

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 16:25

well
hobbits have hairy feet don't they ?

DaDaDa · 24/07/2008 16:39

This one was wearing trainers

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 16:40

I thought he was behind you

you got a good look there didn't you dada

does your head swivel round on a pivot?

DaDaDa · 24/07/2008 16:50

C'mon. I've been joining in Coren bashing all morning and then he's right behind me in the street. Of course I'm going to have a good old nose!

I wouldn't have known him from Adam if he hadn't been bellowing into his mobile to the effect that he was Giles Coren though.