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Pedants' corner

Just been sent this Giles Coren thing - thought I'd share with MN :) (Can't decide whether to applaud or stick pins in him)

227 replies

JustineMumsnet · 23/07/2008 23:40

As sent to Times subs...

Chaps,
I am mightily pissed off. I have addressed this to Owen, Amanda and Ben
because I don't know who i am supposed to be pissed off with (i'm assuming
owen, but i filed to amanda and ben so it's only fair), and also to Tony,
who wasn't here - if he had been I'm guessing it wouldn't have happened.
I don't really like people tinkering with my copy for the sake of
tinkering. I do not enjoy the suggestion that you have a better ear or eye
for how I want my words to read than I do. Owen, we discussed your turning
three of my long sentences into six short ones in a single piece, and how
that wasn't going to happen anymore, so I'm really hoping it wasn't you
that fucked up my review on saturday.
It was the final sentence. Final sentences are very, very important. A
piece builds to them, they are the little jingle that the reader takes with
him into the weekend.
I wrote: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of
rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to
each other, and wondering where to go for a nosh."
it appeared as: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a
glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling
gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for nosh."
There is no length issue. This is someone thinking "I'll just remove this
indefinite article because Coren is an illiterate cunt and i know best".
Well, you fucking don't.
This was shit, shit sub-editing for three reasons.

  1. 'Nosh', as I'm sure you fluent Yiddish speakers know, is a noun formed from a bastardisation of the German 'naschen'. It is a verb, and can be construed into two distinct nouns. One, 'nosh', means simply 'food'. You have decided that this is what i meant and removed the 'a'. I am insulted enough that you think you have a better ear for English than me. But a better ear for Yiddish? I doubt it. Because the other noun, 'nosh' means "a session of eating" - in this sense you might think of its dual valency as being similar to that of 'scoff'. you can go for a scoff. or you can buy some scoff. the sentence you left me with is shit, and is not what i meant. Why would you change a sentnece aso that it meant something i didn't mean? I don't know, but you risk doing it every time you change something. And the way you avoid this kind of fuck up is by not changing a word of my copy without asking me, okay? it's easy. Not. A. Word. Ever.
  2. I will now explain why your error is even more shit than it looks. You see, i was making a joke. I do that sometimes. I have set up the street as "sexually-charged". I have described the shenanigans across the road at G.A.Y.. I have used the word 'gaily' as a gentle nudge. And "looking for a nosh" has a secondary meaning of looking for a blowjob. Not specifically gay, for this is soho, and there are plenty of girls there who take money for noshing boys. "looking for nosh" does not have that ambiguity. the joke is gone. I only wrote that sodding paragraph to make that joke. And you've fucking stripped it out like a pissed Irish plasterer restoring a renaissance fresco and thinking jesus looks shit with a bear so plastering over it. You might as well have removed the whole paragraph. I mean, fucking christ, don't you read the copy?
  3. And worst of all. Dumbest, deafest, shittest of all, you have removed the unstressed 'a' so that the stress that should have fallen on "nosh" is lost, and my piece ends on an unstressed syllable. When you're winding up a piece of prose, metre is crucial. Can't you hear? Can't you hear that it is wrong? It's not fucking rocket science. It's fucking pre-GCSE scansion. I have written 350 restaurant reviews for The Times and i have never ended on an unstressed syllable. Fuck. fuck, fuck, fuck. I am sorry if this looks petty (last time i mailed a Times sub about the change of a single word i got in all sorts of trouble) but i care deeply about my work and i hate to have it fucked up by shit subbing. I have been away, you've been subbing joe and hugo and maybe they just file and fuck off and think "hey ho, it's tomorrow's fish and chips" - well, not me. I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours. weird, maybe. but that's how it is. It strips me of all confidence in writing for the magazine. No exaggeration. i've got a review to write this morning and i really don't feel like doing it, for fear that some nuance is going to be removed from the final line, the pay-off, and i'm going to have another weekend ruined for me. I've been writing for The Times for 15 years and i have never asked this before - i have never asked it of anyone i have written for - but I must insist, from now on, that i am sent a proof of every review i do, in pdf format, so i can check it for fuck-ups. and i must be sent it in good time in case changes are needed. It is the only way i can carry on in the job. And, just out of interest, I'd like whoever made that change to email me and tell me why. Tell me the exact reasoning which led you to remove that word from my copy. Right, Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose. All the best Giles
OP posts:
UnquietDad · 24/07/2008 10:43

He obviously thinks he is terribly, terribly important.

Snaf · 24/07/2008 10:58

It was a slightly clunky sentence to start with, but it was an awful, clodhopping-size-14s sentence after they'd taken out that 'a'. It did sound shit. I think fair play to him. He is a precious little bunnywunny but it's also his job, so he needs to give a damn about it.

Can't believe no-one has noticed he effectively compared his restaurant review to a Renaissance fresco, though...

P.s: I was a sub, too. Not that you can tell.

P.p.s: I'd shag him.

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 11:09

yes so would I snaf

as long as he didn't do any talking

squeaver · 24/07/2008 11:21

What Snaf said. On all points

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 11:23

yes but really

if you had read it without the 'a' to compare, would you have put the paper down in disgust and said "That Giles Coren! Without an 'a' that piece is talentless drivel! I have never read such unstressed filth!"

you would not have bleedin noticed, that's what you would not have done

MrsBadger · 24/07/2008 11:26

I'm not sure that's the point though

if an editor (eg) photoshopped longer eyelashes onto a pic of dd because they thought it made her look prettier no-one else would notice but I would be livid

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 11:29

oh that is different MrsB

that is big issue of women/girls and beauty in the meedja

this is one man and his 'a'

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 11:31

LOL@ unstressed filth

DaDaDa · 24/07/2008 11:31

I would have read that sentence and thought "surely he means 'a nosh'". Horrible phrase though, so I would have thought he was a twat for using it anyway.

I think HR need to have a word about the way he speaks to his colleagues too.

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 11:32

have never heard the nosh/blowjob thing before

Jux · 24/07/2008 11:33

i utterly applaud him. Sub-eds thin they're god and should be taken down several pegs at every opportunity!

squeaver · 24/07/2008 11:33

DaDaDa - that's not an uncommon way for "star" columnists to speak to subs

Snaf · 24/07/2008 11:34

No, Capp, I would have thought 'That Giles Coren! He can't construct sentences for toffee and his jokes about gay sex are utterly weedy, but he looked rather luscious in a pair of Regency britches the other week, so who gives a shit?'

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 11:34

well squeaver they should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves so they should

MrsBadger · 24/07/2008 11:35

well yes capp, bad example

maybe more like if I'd knitted a blanket and they photoshopped it to be a different colour.

(I like the idea of 'one man and his indefinite article' sheepdog-style scansion competitions though)

Snaf · 24/07/2008 11:36

Come by, Giles, come by

cornsilk · 24/07/2008 11:37

The man is a dick. Why didn't he just speak to them about it. Book him on Cod's wanker express with Bono and Geldof.

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 11:48

cornsilk, I booked him on there don't worry ...

snaf have you no shame?

cornsilk · 24/07/2008 11:51

Good work cat.
Why didn't he just send them a poo in the post like any normal person would have done?

Cappuccino · 24/07/2008 11:59

I think that jokes about blow jobs in restaurant reviews are in poor taste

Aggrieved
Tunbridge Wells

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 12:12

I think that unfunny jokes about blow jobs in restaurant reviews are in poor taste
Aggrieved
etc

DaDaDa · 24/07/2008 12:15

'Nosh' is just a horrible word for food and sex. Billy Bunter. Boris Johnson. Roister doister public schoolboys guffawing. Nosh nosh nosh.

DaDaDa · 24/07/2008 12:17

Apropos of nothing...

MadamAntisDerelicte · 24/07/2008 12:20

I feel strangely attracted to him having read that.

Nighbynight · 24/07/2008 12:40

Oh come on, it's obvious. The sub-editor removed his little joke on purpose, because it was stupid and inappropriate.

Why on earth do I want to read jokes about sex?

I'm not some pathetic bloke with a prep-school sense of humour who sniggers when someone comes up with a more subtle version of "...as the actress said to the bishop."

Giles Coren is living in his own little fantasy world. Thankfully for the future of the magazine, his sub-editor appears to have more contact with other people.