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Pedants' corner

Just been sent this Giles Coren thing - thought I'd share with MN :) (Can't decide whether to applaud or stick pins in him)

227 replies

JustineMumsnet · 23/07/2008 23:40

As sent to Times subs...

Chaps,
I am mightily pissed off. I have addressed this to Owen, Amanda and Ben
because I don't know who i am supposed to be pissed off with (i'm assuming
owen, but i filed to amanda and ben so it's only fair), and also to Tony,
who wasn't here - if he had been I'm guessing it wouldn't have happened.
I don't really like people tinkering with my copy for the sake of
tinkering. I do not enjoy the suggestion that you have a better ear or eye
for how I want my words to read than I do. Owen, we discussed your turning
three of my long sentences into six short ones in a single piece, and how
that wasn't going to happen anymore, so I'm really hoping it wasn't you
that fucked up my review on saturday.
It was the final sentence. Final sentences are very, very important. A
piece builds to them, they are the little jingle that the reader takes with
him into the weekend.
I wrote: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of
rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to
each other, and wondering where to go for a nosh."
it appeared as: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a
glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling
gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for nosh."
There is no length issue. This is someone thinking "I'll just remove this
indefinite article because Coren is an illiterate cunt and i know best".
Well, you fucking don't.
This was shit, shit sub-editing for three reasons.

  1. 'Nosh', as I'm sure you fluent Yiddish speakers know, is a noun formed from a bastardisation of the German 'naschen'. It is a verb, and can be construed into two distinct nouns. One, 'nosh', means simply 'food'. You have decided that this is what i meant and removed the 'a'. I am insulted enough that you think you have a better ear for English than me. But a better ear for Yiddish? I doubt it. Because the other noun, 'nosh' means "a session of eating" - in this sense you might think of its dual valency as being similar to that of 'scoff'. you can go for a scoff. or you can buy some scoff. the sentence you left me with is shit, and is not what i meant. Why would you change a sentnece aso that it meant something i didn't mean? I don't know, but you risk doing it every time you change something. And the way you avoid this kind of fuck up is by not changing a word of my copy without asking me, okay? it's easy. Not. A. Word. Ever.
  2. I will now explain why your error is even more shit than it looks. You see, i was making a joke. I do that sometimes. I have set up the street as "sexually-charged". I have described the shenanigans across the road at G.A.Y.. I have used the word 'gaily' as a gentle nudge. And "looking for a nosh" has a secondary meaning of looking for a blowjob. Not specifically gay, for this is soho, and there are plenty of girls there who take money for noshing boys. "looking for nosh" does not have that ambiguity. the joke is gone. I only wrote that sodding paragraph to make that joke. And you've fucking stripped it out like a pissed Irish plasterer restoring a renaissance fresco and thinking jesus looks shit with a bear so plastering over it. You might as well have removed the whole paragraph. I mean, fucking christ, don't you read the copy?
  3. And worst of all. Dumbest, deafest, shittest of all, you have removed the unstressed 'a' so that the stress that should have fallen on "nosh" is lost, and my piece ends on an unstressed syllable. When you're winding up a piece of prose, metre is crucial. Can't you hear? Can't you hear that it is wrong? It's not fucking rocket science. It's fucking pre-GCSE scansion. I have written 350 restaurant reviews for The Times and i have never ended on an unstressed syllable. Fuck. fuck, fuck, fuck. I am sorry if this looks petty (last time i mailed a Times sub about the change of a single word i got in all sorts of trouble) but i care deeply about my work and i hate to have it fucked up by shit subbing. I have been away, you've been subbing joe and hugo and maybe they just file and fuck off and think "hey ho, it's tomorrow's fish and chips" - well, not me. I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours. weird, maybe. but that's how it is. It strips me of all confidence in writing for the magazine. No exaggeration. i've got a review to write this morning and i really don't feel like doing it, for fear that some nuance is going to be removed from the final line, the pay-off, and i'm going to have another weekend ruined for me. I've been writing for The Times for 15 years and i have never asked this before - i have never asked it of anyone i have written for - but I must insist, from now on, that i am sent a proof of every review i do, in pdf format, so i can check it for fuck-ups. and i must be sent it in good time in case changes are needed. It is the only way i can carry on in the job. And, just out of interest, I'd like whoever made that change to email me and tell me why. Tell me the exact reasoning which led you to remove that word from my copy. Right, Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose. All the best Giles
OP posts:
beansprout · 24/07/2008 08:18

It's a bit harsh just to show this out of context. It could well be the last straw in a long line of requests that subs don't just alter things etc etc.

MrsBadger · 24/07/2008 08:27

I do see his point

but I sprayed tea at the screen when I read about the plasterer who thought Jesus looked better without a bear...

spicemonster · 24/07/2008 08:42

That is fantastic. It is a sub's job to edit copy after all so I don't blame them. And I doubt your average ST reader would have noticed the nuance in the text tbh - he's crediting them with too much sophistication and probably a greater attention to detail than anyone ever gives one of his restaurant columns.

Still, a fabulously vituperative piece of writing - best he's ever done

BBBee · 24/07/2008 08:43

I see his point in building up to the whole gay thing and the sexual sub-text so it must have been frustrating.

I also think he is completely underestimating how much attetion i pay whilst reading the paper.

talilac · 24/07/2008 09:34

Thats unintentionally hilarious. I like Giles on the telly, but he does strike me as being very, um, aware of his own importance.

EffiePerine · 24/07/2008 09:37

stick pins in him

honestly just banish the lot of em. Can anyone name a Coren (alive) who isn't a complete waste of space?

TwoWashTutter · 24/07/2008 09:39

ooh, who was his father?

PortAndLemon · 24/07/2008 09:41

Alan Coren (that was to Tutter, not Effie)

TwoWashTutter · 24/07/2008 09:41

i should know who is he, shouldn't i...?

EffiePerine · 24/07/2008 09:42

Alan (unless there is a whole other Coren family I don't know about )

good quote on another blog

"This degree of contempt towards mere mortals is common among the undeserving beneficiaries of nepotism."

snurk

Habbibu · 24/07/2008 09:42

Oh, poor soul. Does he think people pay that much attention to the subtle nuances of restaurant reviews?
Tutter (why two wash, btw?) I think their dad was Alan Coren.

TwoWashTutter · 24/07/2008 09:43

i confessed to having two dishwashers (i will when we move, anyway)

and mamag thought it would make people think "TWaT"

WendyWeber · 24/07/2008 09:45

Justine, how come you have it? Has it been sent round to every non-tabloid hack in the country?

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 09:45

'wondering where to go for a nosh' sounds shit though

perhaps that's why they changed it
hmm?

Twiglett · 24/07/2008 09:45

am in awe

Oh, but I can see his point and am rather enamoured of anyone who cares so much. Good for him.

I can see your conundrum though .. pins or praise? Pins or praise? Pins...or...praise?

(see what I did there lovey, it's all about the metre)

TwoWashTutter · 24/07/2008 09:45

ah, i just googled him

i remember him from call my bluff, rather than R4

TwoWashTutter · 24/07/2008 09:46
WideWebWitch · 24/07/2008 09:47

Fucking hell!
Very funny, I do understand why he's cross but also, get a grip Giles, you're not bloody Keats, it was a restaurant review!

littlelapin · 24/07/2008 09:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Oliveoil · 24/07/2008 09:47

haahahahaahahahahahahahaha

oh my lord, he needs to get a life pretty damn pronto

I always read his column(s) and he is v funny etc but Giles, my love, get a fecking grip

go and ponce about at an overpriced sushi joint and cheer up

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 09:47

oh he sounds like a prize knob

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 09:48

and why would you want a sub-text about looking for a blow-job at the end of a restaurant review anyway?

he has made me strangely cross

WideWebWitch · 24/07/2008 09:49

Hassled, agree, the subs will find subtle ways to get at it for ever more now. Random apostrophes will appear and whole sentences will be completely rearranged. He absolutely does need a shag, I agree Harpsi.

littlelapin · 24/07/2008 09:52

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 09:53

he needs to fucking cunting calm down a bit I reckon