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Pedants' corner

Just been sent this Giles Coren thing - thought I'd share with MN :) (Can't decide whether to applaud or stick pins in him)

227 replies

JustineMumsnet · 23/07/2008 23:40

As sent to Times subs...

Chaps,
I am mightily pissed off. I have addressed this to Owen, Amanda and Ben
because I don't know who i am supposed to be pissed off with (i'm assuming
owen, but i filed to amanda and ben so it's only fair), and also to Tony,
who wasn't here - if he had been I'm guessing it wouldn't have happened.
I don't really like people tinkering with my copy for the sake of
tinkering. I do not enjoy the suggestion that you have a better ear or eye
for how I want my words to read than I do. Owen, we discussed your turning
three of my long sentences into six short ones in a single piece, and how
that wasn't going to happen anymore, so I'm really hoping it wasn't you
that fucked up my review on saturday.
It was the final sentence. Final sentences are very, very important. A
piece builds to them, they are the little jingle that the reader takes with
him into the weekend.
I wrote: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a glass of
rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling gaily to
each other, and wondering where to go for a nosh."
it appeared as: "I can't think of a nicer place to sit this spring over a
glass of rosé and watch the boys and girls in the street outside smiling
gaily to each other, and wondering where to go for nosh."
There is no length issue. This is someone thinking "I'll just remove this
indefinite article because Coren is an illiterate cunt and i know best".
Well, you fucking don't.
This was shit, shit sub-editing for three reasons.

  1. 'Nosh', as I'm sure you fluent Yiddish speakers know, is a noun formed from a bastardisation of the German 'naschen'. It is a verb, and can be construed into two distinct nouns. One, 'nosh', means simply 'food'. You have decided that this is what i meant and removed the 'a'. I am insulted enough that you think you have a better ear for English than me. But a better ear for Yiddish? I doubt it. Because the other noun, 'nosh' means "a session of eating" - in this sense you might think of its dual valency as being similar to that of 'scoff'. you can go for a scoff. or you can buy some scoff. the sentence you left me with is shit, and is not what i meant. Why would you change a sentnece aso that it meant something i didn't mean? I don't know, but you risk doing it every time you change something. And the way you avoid this kind of fuck up is by not changing a word of my copy without asking me, okay? it's easy. Not. A. Word. Ever.
  2. I will now explain why your error is even more shit than it looks. You see, i was making a joke. I do that sometimes. I have set up the street as "sexually-charged". I have described the shenanigans across the road at G.A.Y.. I have used the word 'gaily' as a gentle nudge. And "looking for a nosh" has a secondary meaning of looking for a blowjob. Not specifically gay, for this is soho, and there are plenty of girls there who take money for noshing boys. "looking for nosh" does not have that ambiguity. the joke is gone. I only wrote that sodding paragraph to make that joke. And you've fucking stripped it out like a pissed Irish plasterer restoring a renaissance fresco and thinking jesus looks shit with a bear so plastering over it. You might as well have removed the whole paragraph. I mean, fucking christ, don't you read the copy?
  3. And worst of all. Dumbest, deafest, shittest of all, you have removed the unstressed 'a' so that the stress that should have fallen on "nosh" is lost, and my piece ends on an unstressed syllable. When you're winding up a piece of prose, metre is crucial. Can't you hear? Can't you hear that it is wrong? It's not fucking rocket science. It's fucking pre-GCSE scansion. I have written 350 restaurant reviews for The Times and i have never ended on an unstressed syllable. Fuck. fuck, fuck, fuck. I am sorry if this looks petty (last time i mailed a Times sub about the change of a single word i got in all sorts of trouble) but i care deeply about my work and i hate to have it fucked up by shit subbing. I have been away, you've been subbing joe and hugo and maybe they just file and fuck off and think "hey ho, it's tomorrow's fish and chips" - well, not me. I woke up at three in the morning on sunday and fucking lay there, furious, for two hours. weird, maybe. but that's how it is. It strips me of all confidence in writing for the magazine. No exaggeration. i've got a review to write this morning and i really don't feel like doing it, for fear that some nuance is going to be removed from the final line, the pay-off, and i'm going to have another weekend ruined for me. I've been writing for The Times for 15 years and i have never asked this before - i have never asked it of anyone i have written for - but I must insist, from now on, that i am sent a proof of every review i do, in pdf format, so i can check it for fuck-ups. and i must be sent it in good time in case changes are needed. It is the only way i can carry on in the job. And, just out of interest, I'd like whoever made that change to email me and tell me why. Tell me the exact reasoning which led you to remove that word from my copy. Right, Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose. All the best Giles
OP posts:
MrsBadger · 24/07/2008 09:55

I confess I have a soft spot for him

he obviously sends the emails that I delete

theSuburbanDryad · 24/07/2008 09:56

Best piece of writing I've ever seen from him, tbh.

Did he mean that Jesus would look better without a bear? Is there some subtle nuance there that I've missed as well?

Cies · 24/07/2008 09:57

PMSL - this is fab.

I too think he is over-estimating his readers and how much they actually care - it's a restaurant review, not Shakespeare.

MrsBadger · 24/07/2008 09:57

and I love the signoffs -
"...learn to write, and take your head out of your arse, you fucking twat.

all the best"

ace

(my italics, before he starts getting pissy)

WideWebWitch · 24/07/2008 09:57

ha ha ha at "never ever ask me to write something for you. and don't pay me. i'd rather take £400 quid for assassinating a crack whore's only child in a revenge killing for a busted drug deal - my integrity would be less compromised."

I am warming to him with his cunting this nad fucking that. He swears well!

Carmenere · 24/07/2008 09:58

Sorry that second rant about the quick brown fox has pushed him firmly into the realm of tosser imo

littlelapin · 24/07/2008 09:58

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MrsBadger · 24/07/2008 09:58

SuburbanDryad, it must be a typo for 'beard'

lovely image though

CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 10:00

think he needs to proof-read his own emails bless 'im

theSuburbanDryad · 24/07/2008 10:00

I am weeping tears of laughter at his response to the other review.

He is utterly, utterly brilliant. I, too, like the "Sorry to go on. Anger, real steaming fucking anger can make a man verbose.
All the best
Giles"

Marina · 24/07/2008 10:00

Go Giles, agree that this is the best I have seen from him yet
Do we think he has a chronic attack of spleen after all those dreadful noshes with Sue on Channel 4? I reckon he has fried his bile ducts.

ahundredtimes · 24/07/2008 10:01

lol. I quite admire it actually, though I probably shouldn't.

God. Imagine if it was you who'd taken out the 'a', you were busy, you thought 'no, no, it's going for nosh'.

How long would it take you to compose your email to him? I bet Amanda, Hugo and Peter are fighting over non-responsibility. lol.

EthelTheUnready · 24/07/2008 10:01

He is going to be really really really cross when he realises his email is all over t'internet.

Stand back....

littlelapin · 24/07/2008 10:02

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

WideWebWitch · 24/07/2008 10:02

So do we think he meant to type 'beard' and made a typo or do we think he was making the point that if you omit one letter it completely changes the meaning? The latter is more likely I suppose given that he's so uptight.

ExterminAitch · 24/07/2008 10:03

no, he is Completely Right. as a former sub and as a writer, they are wrong and he is correct. nosh sounds wrong, a nosh sounds right, and any fule know that you just never ever EVER change a first or last line. the subs should get their arses kicked massively.

i also wrote an (admittedly not quite so precious) email recently over a single word that a sub changed In A Quote . loads of people wouldn't give a shit, but if someone says that a person is 'coping' with a number of disabilities and an arsehole sub changes that word to 'saddled' with, this must be brought forcefully to their attention.

poor giles, he really cares, it would seem. good for him.

EthelTheUnready · 24/07/2008 10:03

Thanks LL. Sorry to see he's playing it down. I was looking forward to the fireworks.

littlelapin · 24/07/2008 10:04

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CatIsSleepy · 24/07/2008 10:04

definitely a typo

ahundredtimes · 24/07/2008 10:06

I think Aitch is right. I also think it's a bit of a 'grumpy man of letters' act tbh.

MegBusset · 24/07/2008 10:06

Ach, this kind of thing is nothing new to us poor subs. I worked at one magazine where the editor (who was a good editor but an appalling writer) would absolutely hit the roof if anyone so much as touched a comma on his copy. In the end we decided it was easier not to touch a word of it and let it stand in all its glorious, cliche-filled awfulness.

littlelapin · 24/07/2008 10:07

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Habbibu · 24/07/2008 10:07

Dunno, Aitch - the difference between "coping" and "saddled" is quite important - have read nothing in this festival of fury from Coren that justifies such ire. It's quite funny, but too precious for words.

littlelapin · 24/07/2008 10:08

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ahundredtimes · 24/07/2008 10:10

Oh but he has to be precious about it Habb, because nobody else cares. Not as much as him, nobody cares even half as much as him. Tis the way of these things.