Retiring abroad and leaving adult children

[BrusselsPate]

DH and I are looking into retiring abroad (currently live in the UK) possibly France, Italy or Spain. We've worked out that financially this would be possible in 3-5 years time.
We have 3 adult children, one is completely independent with their own children; one will be moving out (moving away for work) and financially independent within the next year, but the youngest (21) will need help financially for a few more years (which will be provided by the house sale if we moved abroad).
I just feel that I might be being a bit selfish by not providing a family base in the UK, particularly for the younger two, and also by not being around during retirement for more grandparent duties, that I'm not currently able to provide due to working full time.
Has anyone else made the move abroad full time without keeping a base in their home country, once their children had grown up and how have you found it? And anyone with grandchildren, how do you manage to keep up a meaningful relationship with them?

Of course it's not all older people I think are entitled/selfish. I have made a sweeping generalization probably..and shouldn't have.....but this is based on my own experiences with the elderly I come across now and the experiences of my friends and their parents. Plus my own personal relationship with DM.
I feel that the people this age group had grown up through years when it was rare for older people to live to extreme old age. It was quite common for men to die of a heart attack just a couple of years after retirement! The young women did care for older relatives, as was expected, but not for the many years that are needed now. The generation has kept the expectation about family care, and forgotten how much quicker and easier it worked out for them.

@Poppybob I agree.

Also think that 21 is young now. Yes, yes, we all left home at 18 and went to uni on afullgrant and got on with it in the 90s,but times change.

Agree .21 is loads younger from when I was 21.....whether we like it or not unfortunately

Plus it was more common that a household could get by on X1 wage back then...and women were at home more and not go to work..where now you need X2 wages just to scrape by and women are expected to care for elderly parents and DC etc etc on top of working full time.

I totally agree that the OP should go for it if this is important to her.
Although I’d also reiterate all the suggestions above about having a plan for what happens as they age and need more help, can’t travel or want to return to the UK.
Also, as someone who has lived abroad keep in mind that the UK won’t stay the same as when you left and that can make it hard to return. Your relationships will change (even if you visit each other), places change, people move and house prices change. You might not just slot back into your old life if you decide to go back (especially if you’re older, less mobile and don’t have work/hobbies/kids to provide new social connections). It’s not a reason not to go but it is something to consider.

Your second point is really interesting. We are the children that moved abroad in our twenties (or early 30s in my husband’s case).
We have always had a very clear plan for going back if our parents need us. Our children are now approaching secondary school age and we’ll move back to the UK before they start because we recognize that it’ll be a lot harder to move back quickly as they get into GCSEs and A-levels. Our parents are also finding it more difficult to visit us or meet half way so it’s the right time to return.
Most of our friends who live abroad also have some sort of plan in place for how they’ll manage if their parents can’t visit any more or need more help.

Doesn't matter if your DH is EU national .... if you're not, then you're limited to 90 days within a 180 day period. That may be enough for your travels, however. Or your DH will need to effectively sponsor you for your resident visa, which is what my DH had to do. You'll need to establish yourself in one EU country first in order to get this.

I think this is a really good point about expectations for health from the current generation of people in retirement age, especially that last sentence. Thinking about my grandparents, the two that were ill (cancer; dementia) were not seriously ill for that long - my grandma was in a care home for a couple of years, which was unusual at the time (early 90s). In contrast, my mum (Parkinson’s and dementia) was in a care home for five tears before she died and had been living at home with carers coming in for maybe three years before that.

The point another poster made about usually being able to live on one wage, therefore the daughter(s) who were generally tasked with the caring work weren’t trying to juggle work and childcare and limited annual leave as well, is also very true. It was a struggle to manage my mum’s care living a couple of hours away, especially in the years she was deteriorating before she went into a home. Travelling from abroad would have made it all much more difficult (cost, time off work, childcare).

So there you have it, OP. You are being exceptionally selfish, deserting your family, expecting them to give up their holidays to come and see you, not providing any childcare for them, and then, to top it all off expecting them to take care of you in your old age.

OR

You can plan ahead, think of how you will deal with young middle age, old middle age and then finally frail old age.Seriously, have a plan and discuss it in great detail with your children.

Wow! Didn't expect this many responses!
This has given us a lot to think about. I'm still hoping that we'll be able to make it work, but we're going to have to look seriously at keeping a base close to where we currently live; having a longer term plan for our old age and/or emergencies; not expect friends and family to visit often (if at all) but realise the responsibility for maintaining relationships falls on us; and most importantly we need to have an open discussion with our children.
Thanks everyone, this has really helped to clarify a few things.

BTW I'm totally prepared to do all of the above and feel it would be only fair given that we'd be the ones moving away.
And our youngest DC will be about 24 or 25 by the time we made the move.

I wouldn't like to do it though my partner would so may be why we split one day. I wouldn't want a mainly remote relationship with my children and grandchildren unless unavoidable.

@BrusselsPate maintaining relationships should work both ways, though.

Elderly care needs apart, I think the bottom line is that if you move a distance away, you have to be prepared to sacrifice your current relationships to an extent. Regardless of cheap flights, Skype, FaceTime, phone calls etc, if you don’t see someone regularly, the relationship changes. We all expect this to happen with our friends, but with family it can cause hurt and resentment on both sides. You have to decide what you value most - relationships or environment. Because you can’t have it both ways.

@Bingbopboomboomboombopbam not really. At least, the person who chooses to move hundreds of miles away, changing the dynamic of the relationship, and adding to the inconvenience of any contact , should be the one who makes most of the effort.

May I ask why people from the UK seem to be so keen to move to certain parts of Europe? You can easily visit whenever so what is the actual appeal of moving there? Just wondering,.

Better quality of life and better weather.

I think you are way out on your timescales as well as making generalisations. I’m 60, so bang in the middle of your 50-70 “selfish” age bracket. DH and I have had parents dying at 88, 89, 97 and one still going at 94, in every case with years and years of caring needs by us, in a home or with live in carers beforehand. It was THEIR parents who died relatively quickly with relatively short periods of ill health, not ours. We know all about dealing with extreme old age, and so do many of my same age friends. The “more quantity but not quality of life” issue has been around for at least half a generation at this point.

I think it's usually for better weather, and a cheaper cost of living. I understand that in popular places like Spain, a lot of things are cheaper, plus heating costs are less. You usually get an expat enclave as well. Sometimes people like to sit in the sunshine, spend time on the beach and not worry about the cold.

My adult children are my favourite people in the world, so I'd never move abroad away from them. My biggest worry is they'll move away from me, but it's their life!

Our kids don't have a great relationship with any of their grandchildren. Relationships need quantity time not quality time.
The odd holiday and Xmas together don't build true knowledge it really is about the ten minute catch ups not the marathon family occasions.

Could you rent out your house and then rent somewhere abroad, if you change your minds then you always have a place to come back to

Weather mainly and getting away from the long grey wet winters where a lot of time is spent indoors
Being in a warmer climate is better for mentality and also people tend to be out and about more so they are more active and therefore possibly healthier

Our plan is short term let the house then live in nice places in for a month or 6 weeks or so at a time but maintain our house and life here. Met a client that does this it’s great. She uses the rent from her property to fund her trips. We live in a place people like to visit which also has a thriving university so there are many people wanting short term lets.

The other points to consider are taxes and wills (v different in. France for example to here) and plan ahead for travel changes ie what happens in 5/10/15 years if the flights stop running from your local airport to the UK, or travel generally gets way more expensive

Dynamics can change for any number of reasons - just because someone moves it doesn’t suddenly become their sole responsibility to keep in touch. Especially nowadays when it’s so easy to keep contact ongoing.