Retiring abroad and leaving adult children

[BrusselsPate]

DH and I are looking into retiring abroad (currently live in the UK) possibly France, Italy or Spain. We've worked out that financially this would be possible in 3-5 years time.
We have 3 adult children, one is completely independent with their own children; one will be moving out (moving away for work) and financially independent within the next year, but the youngest (21) will need help financially for a few more years (which will be provided by the house sale if we moved abroad).
I just feel that I might be being a bit selfish by not providing a family base in the UK, particularly for the younger two, and also by not being around during retirement for more grandparent duties, that I'm not currently able to provide due to working full time.
Has anyone else made the move abroad full time without keeping a base in their home country, once their children had grown up and how have you found it? And anyone with grandchildren, how do you manage to keep up a meaningful relationship with them?

My parents did it. Our relationship hasn't really survived, and my mother has barely any relationship at all with my children.

Everyone has this idea that it's free holidays and you'll visit every five minutes, but TBH it didn't happen. We went a couple of times when they first moved, but they were fully invested in the boozy ex pat lifestyle and my mother was just annoyed by my kids the whole time. I came home upset and exhausted and didn't go again.

The distance makes it very easy for the relationship to drift. To be fair there were problems in the relationship before they went and the distance just turned the cracks into a chasm. I can cope with my mother for an afternoon, but spending hundreds of pounds to be with her for a week in a place where I can't cope with the heat? No thanks.

Part of the problem is that there can't be casual, easy, short visits. You won't be able to spend just an afternoon with grandkids. Xmas/birthdays you are unlikely to see them. You won't be able to help if one of your kids is ill or in difficulty, and they won't be able to help you. And you also need to think about what happens if you get ill or frail as you age - what's your contingency plan if you're suddenly widowed, for example.

💯 agree with this
I personally wouldn't do it.....if I could afford it I would buy a holiday home and holiday abroad throughout the year.
That way you have the security of a base, access to healthcare etc...and still maintain family relationships to an extent and still be able to enjoy living abroad.
I've a friend whose mum moved abroad and her stepdad died suddenly....her mum fell to pieces and my friend who had DC had to use up all her own holidays flying over and sorting things out for her mum (who never once helped my friend with kids etc etc...because living abroad) it's so so selfish. But I honestly think the current older generation of 50-70years are so entitled and expect help from family when they themselves did not help their own parents or DC

Cough SOME of them do. Whereas some of us are full-time childcare and would never put sunshine and sangria ahead of family.

Nearly all of MN is full of posts by 20 or 30 somethings complaining that they dont get regular childcare, inheritance or holidays, so I find it really laughable that apparently 50-70 yr olds are the.entitled ones.

@Poppybob stop with the negative generalisation of older people. It's neither accurate nor helpful.

Personally I wouldn't even consider it. You will forfeit a meaningful relationship with any grandchildren that come along. Proximity is everything - you won't be able to do those casual drop ins - it will involve exhausting travel and the pressure of high expectations on both sides for those visits.

We actually moved five years into our retirement, still in the UK - but to be nearer our daughter and grandchildren - at her request. We weighed everything up and went for it. I wouldn't have missed the joy of being part of my grandchildren's lives for anything. At present, it's me who helps them as we're fit early seventies people. And it's peaks and troughs, some weeks I might see lots of them, other weeks we don't - it depends on what each of us has on. But our oldest grandchild has a close relationship with us as we looked after him a couple of days a week, so he comes for sleepovers here. Likewise I just do drop in babysitting for our toddler, but also have a fab relationship and he will be coming along with his brother in due course to stay with us.

I can understand the lure of the hedonistic lifestyle abroad, but there's a dark price to be paid, in my opinion. Both by your children and ultimately by you. It's fine when you're young retirees, but life can change so quickly and then you will be being an absolute pain to your children. Why not have extended holidays abroad instead - that way you can see many different parts of the world.

There's too much negativity around the UK at the moment, and it's easy to be sucked into that spiral. You've obviously got reservations about moving abroad - listen to your gut feeling - and if you do go, definitely keep a small base in the UK so you leave your options open.

I live in Spain (20 years) and have a Spanish DD and EXSpanishH.

The thought of you sorting out visas, registering yourself, getting your flat/home sorted and bills set up, yearly updating at the police office, being accepted in society, sorting out your car/driving licence, making Spanish wills, seeing Spanish lawyers and notaries/ estate agents who will rip you off, fills me with HORROR! I hope you are at least fluent. The amount of paperwork is unfathomable. Laws/tax/language vary depending on where you live.

Forget anything other than private healthcare.

Good Luck.

I'm in my 50s and our parents were in their 70s, 80s and 90s when they died. I'm not entitled - I'm realistic. We know exactly what it means to have elderly relatives and what's involved in supporting them as their health declines and they pass away and then dealing with houses and wills. It's the reason we have decided not to move abroad as we wouldn't inflict that on our DC.

OP would you give the 21 year old the option to move with you for a while, if they wanted to?

Posters will say that 21 is an adult and they can fend for themselves, but you are fresh out of education, financially stunted, still learning about life and developing emotionally - I imagine it would be very hard to have your parents up sticks to another country at that age, and it would probably put a lot of pressure on their siblings to look out for them

My post wasn't directed at you but at the poster above. Perhaps I shoud have quoted.
I am the same age as you.

My parents immigrated to another country and set up life there, while both sets of parents stayed in their home country. Growing up, my siblings and I had no relationship with any of my grandparents. Our grandparents have all passed away and we know nothing of them.

Despite not having a great relationship with my mother, I do on some level feel this. We just weren't that important to her. She was ok with not being able to see us more than once a year. She's moved back to the UK now (she was widowed v suddenly and unexpectedly) and said to me, with no self awareness at all, that she wanted the life she had abroad back again. It was a life that didn't include her kids or grandkids. Says it all, really.

Having experienced it, I wouldn't do it to my own kids.

I think it is difficult to imagine oneself becoming becoming frail, struggling with change, not being able to do or cope with things one was able to handle even a short time before.

As my DM aged she stopped being able to do things she had previously been able to deal with just fine. Her computer 'stopped working', the television remote 'broke', her phone became incomprehensible. She needed help to deal with admin but with DB and me close by she could continue to live independently.

Being far away will make it nigh on impossible for a family member to give this sort of gentle support.

I haven’t RTFT so apologies if this has already been said. But please speak to a financial advisor with experience of Europe. We have friends who have moved to Europe a few years ago (pre Brexit) and are now investigating using their private pensions, only to discover that they may be taxed in the uk and European country on them, which hugely diminishes the amount they have available.

I’m always astounded about how sanguine people are about receiving healthcare or even basic pain relief in the UK as they age. Your survival chances as you age and contract most serious diseases and cancers are measurably better elsewhere in Europe.
It’s one of the best reasons to consider emigrating.

So if you can afford to go and can acquire permanent residency or citizenship in a country like France with great healthcare, I can’t see a reason why that wouldn’t be an option worth considering. That said I wouldn’t do it until your youngest is more established. There are some countries visas etc I believe that can extend to children under 25 - maybe he could come too depending on where you go.

In a way no different from parents or children moving from England up to Scotland. My neighbour's daughter moved there and can only do very brief visits. No sooner are they here they are gone again. Daughter husband and 3 yr old grandson. Plus everybody has work commitments so you cannot just go out of the blue.

We're not rich but we'll be living abroad for several months of the year once we're retired. If you go somewhere with a very low cost of living you don't need to be rich.

However we will be keeping a house here which the DCs can stay in if they want to.

I 2nd all of this, other than the healthcare. I found Spanish healthcare hugely better than the UK.

But all the rest? Yes. I was still being chased for documentation for my ayuntamiento long after I'd returned to the UK, for infractions and stuff I hadn't done correctly. Despite having a really lovely, English speaking guy in the office who helped me massively.

And they say the UK is a nation of immigrants! You wouldn't think it to look at this thread.

My FIL moved to Spain along with his wife (not my husband's Mum, who passed away many years prior). He kept saying to my husband and his other 3 adult children about coming out to visit, as much as we liked. All of his children told him, that coming out frequently wasn't going to be an option, prior to him moving. My husband and I have a son, his brother 4 children, his sister worked in term-time and no one had that much holiday to do so. He ignored everything said and went off to Spain. Low and behold, none of his children could visit frequently - we have tried to build a relationship with him and our son. My BIL's 2 oldest children, know him and have some kind of relationship but the youngest 2 don't know him at all. He's a stranger to them. Yes, we have visited but once my son started school, and I started working in a school, it meant school holidays. We simply couldn't afford to do it. My FIL and his wife moved back to the UK last year after spending 12-13 years living in Spain. They had barely any money, and couldn't afford buy anything here at all. They are now renting a small flat. My advice is, leave yourself money to return if you need too or better still a property here. Most British, end up coming home once they become older, and realise they've no family support. Old age support in Spain is sparse. Learn the language. Your children if they've got no responsibilities may visit more frequently but that will change as they get older and their own level of responsibility increases.

We did it. It was awful. I missed the family and they didn't come out often to visit. .whilst flying back was cheap there was really nowhere to stay back here as our property was rented out. I missed the english way of life too. I was bored out of my brain after 2 years but stayed for 10. Big big mistake all round for us but obviously not for everyone, we have friends who would never come back to the UK.
My husband is now in need of various medical care which would have been unavailable over there without paying an horrendous amount of money out.

Well, that’s true about healthcare. Where my PIL live puts the NHS, and even the private healthcare I pay through the nose for in the UK,to shame.

BUT, you still need help with it. FIL just had a hip replacement that hew would have been on an NHS waiting list for in the UK for years (if he ever got it beife he died), in a matter of weeks. But he couldn’t get himself to and from the hospital an hour away from where they are. He also needed practical help afterwards that MIL couldn’t give him. He needed to go to the pharmacy in the closest town - MIL no longer wants to drive in rural roads. So SIL is using two weeks of her work holiday to fly over and help.

MIL was born in the country they live in and she taught SIL and dh the language. If they couldn’t all speak the language, things would be difficult too.

Those immigrants were forced here due to push factors. War, famine. Or pull factors, such as education and economic opportunities. Not for sun, sea and sangria at 60+. Done much earlier when they were young and able to work which in itself both pays into the system and develops roots.

Oh Absolutely! The healthcare here is 100% better than the UK. But you have to have paid tax and worked here, have family here.

No way can you rock up and get anything other than private healthcare which you have to prove you have before anything else.

My god the town hall - I can well believe it.
Oh - also every single document will need to be translated and notarised (ususally no more than 3 months before.

Can't believe your in laws were put out and made it obvious to you.

I would be furious if I was expected to spend so much annual leave and money to go visit someone every year, that's not a holiday imo. If I moves abroad I'd make it clear to family that they were welcome but there was no expectation. I wouldn't want to cause problems in their marriage.