Retiring abroad and leaving adult children

[BrusselsPate]

DH and I are looking into retiring abroad (currently live in the UK) possibly France, Italy or Spain. We've worked out that financially this would be possible in 3-5 years time.
We have 3 adult children, one is completely independent with their own children; one will be moving out (moving away for work) and financially independent within the next year, but the youngest (21) will need help financially for a few more years (which will be provided by the house sale if we moved abroad).
I just feel that I might be being a bit selfish by not providing a family base in the UK, particularly for the younger two, and also by not being around during retirement for more grandparent duties, that I'm not currently able to provide due to working full time.
Has anyone else made the move abroad full time without keeping a base in their home country, once their children had grown up and how have you found it? And anyone with grandchildren, how do you manage to keep up a meaningful relationship with them?

I moved 2 hours drive away from my 20 somethings and still feel guilty and sometimes regret it. They do come to stay regularly and we chat on the phone once a week , and have a family groupchat, but my oldests fiancee broke her wrist on the weekend and when DS rang me I could tell he was half asleep sitting in a hospital chair( so much fun) but if I hadn't moved we could have done shifts, things like that. And GC are really worrying me ( lack of contact), none yet but one on way. And this is only 2 hours drive!!
I'd be thinking carefully.
Do you imagine a cute French village where you ride your bike to buy a baguette of a morning; or one of those ( sorry to be rude but it's true) utterly horrible massive apartment complexes by the sea in Spain full of people from England? Maybe make a list of pros and cons?

I’ve thought about this. My tentative plans are to travel back and forth as per EU rules.
We’d buy a place in a popular location that will be easy for DD to sell when we die.
Also keep a small place in our UK home town for when we are here and for DD to live in as she wishes.

in surprised about all the negative comments on this thread.
my experience is polar opposite to the majority here.

my DM moved to Spain twenty years ago and has been living her best life since.
shes now in her mid eighties and fully immersed in her local community and has more support there than she’d get here.

my DC were only three and seven when she left. They are incredibly close to their GMA and have had a wonderful childhood fully immersed in the Spanish culture.
they see her far more than they do MIL who lives in UK.

you’re not planning on moving to the other side of the world!!

if you have good close relationships with your DC that’s not going to change.

i would have hated thinking that she couldn’t live the life she wanted because she felt beholden to us

I wouldn't do it as a permanent move. You could go for three months at a time or travel for extended periods. It's definitely inadvisable to get rid of your base in England. In my experience family relationships never develop further than where they were when you left.

Wow

Lots of negative/concerned posts here OP. It can work but you need to be realistic and have plans for your future.

We retired to France 4 years ago when our DC’s were 21 and 23. Both left uni and starting out in their careers. The first thing we did was discuss with them and get their approval. Fast forward and both DC’s living and working abroad; one in Australia the other in a European capital. We spent a chunk of time in Aus last year and are able to frequently see European based DS.

Not knowing how the move would go we decided to leave our family home in the UK and it is currently rented out. This provides us with a base there if we want to go back as well as an income. Don’t underestimate the effort in running rental properties but for us it is worth the peace of mind.

We absolutely love living where we do but there are a few things to consider; visa status, tax implications, French inheritance laws, French ‘gifting’ laws ( if you are planning on helping your DC’s financially), health system is excellent here but will you be eligible for a carte vital and are you aware of the Mutuelle? Also thanks to Brexit there are only a couple of UK banks that will allow you to have a UK bank account without a UK address.

Finally we do not know how long we will be here for; we are very aware that when we get old/ill we will probably return to the uk as the thought of needing care in a foreign language and in a foreign system is daunting. We also do not know where our children will end up settling which may precipitate a move to be nearer grandchildren. I think the key is to remain flexible and not put all your eggs in one basket.

Life is not a practice run!

@drivinmecrazy I think it's different when a parent becomes ill & if gc can't afford regular trips or have other demands on their time.

Of all the people I know who have done this, the expectation always seems to be “ oh well people will come and visit.”

Even though you’re family, you’re not necessarily the big draw you think you are. The novelty wears off after a few times and as PPs have noted, adult children grow up, have constraints on their own time, have children, want holidays that aren’t just going to see you etc.

I have a few friends who have done this and our friendship has dwindled because no, I don’t want to spend a week of my precious annual leave going to see them when previously we would have caught up a couple of times a month in person, thank you.

The older couples I know who retired abroad and left their children in the UK have either come back because of health issues or to become more involved with their grandchildren as it just wasn’t satisfactory to see them at best twice a year, money permitting.

All of them had passable French/Spanish/Italian but even they said that navigating bureaucracy was a nightmare, particularly in France, it seems.

I see my own parents every couple of weeks and they only live about 50 miles away. I fully expect to want to be available as and when they need more support from me (I’m an only child) so when we took the decision to move house, I purposely didn’t want to make things more complicated than they needed to be by putting an unnecessary distance between us. What a 21 year old says now about not minding, and what they might think in 15 years time will be very different when they are staring down the barrel of navigating your health care.

My parents have done this scenario. They're not in a great position financially. Fine day to day but any shocks aren't easily managed. I resigned as their POA when one of my children developed a time consuming illness that will last a very long time. I can't do all the trips I'd have to do as part of even minimally caring for them in old age. Because of this, they have no-one as they left all their family behind. They've also put themselves in a position where they aren't able to come back either.

They are counting on their friends and community to support them as they age, which is starting to kick in now. It's led to some tricky situations and they're only just starting to need small amounts of support now. Goodness knows what it's going to be like in the coming years.

Unless you are wealthy and can afford to pay for all sorts of care for a long period of time, you may end up in a very bad position.

It's great that my parents have had 20 years of enjoying their location but it's really coming to bite them now.

I agree with all the pp's about issues around care. We have lost two of the four grandparents now and both were sudden changes from fine to not fine. One of them was doing a lot of looking after their spouse and then suddenly developed a health problem meaning they were both struggling. It's all very well saying 'ill just move back' but the difficulty is that the decision to move back really has to be made before any health problems arise, which needs a crystal ball to predict! Once issues arise, trying to move back while unwell and older is not realistic without huge help from the adult dc.
I have family a long distance away in the UK and doing the journey by myself with small children was a nightmare. The logistics of travelling is easier now but my older one has a lot of energy so does a lot of activities and is often eg at scout camp in the school holidays. Which makes it trickier to fit in times to take a week out to visit relatives. There is absolutely no way I would be able to visit with any regularity at all to do jobs like helping with finances or clearing out things in the house to enable a downsize. I have a good relationship with the family members and feel awful that I can't help but it was their choice to move. So in conclusion I would only do it if you are wealthy and can afford to throw money at any problems that arise which it doesn't really sound like is the case here.

LadyOfTheCanyon you are completely correct about French bureaucracy navigation, complete nightmare but we keep reminding ourselves it’s a small price to pay for living here!

Four years in we still get loads of visitors but we really make an effort to go back to the UK a couple of times a year and dedicate that time to seeing old friends. We will also pop back for an event like birthday parties, weddings etc.

It can be done but I’d say don’t burn your bridges and remain open to change.

We lived abroad til our DC was 8 then we moved back to the UK. We will be moving abroad again as soon as our DC has finished their medical degree and is settled in a job. Healthcare was fine to navigate my DC had numerous operations abroad (hence why they wanted to be an DR since they were 8 years old!) and the care was excellent.

Things that I would advise and what we will do when we move back to our house abroad.

Location. 4 airports within 45 minutes to 1 and a half hours drive. It takes DC 4 hours to get home from Uni on the train in the UK. DC can fly to any one of the airports abroad from airports in the UK in 1 and a half hours.

Supermarkets within 20 to 30 minute drive. Online supermarket shopping available.

Hospital within 20 to 30 minute drive.

My DC knows I expect no care in my old age. I also believe in Euthanasia and I can access the clinics in Switzerland easier from the house abroad anyway.

Keep a base in the UK (we rented our other house out).

Be prepared for lots of paperwork.

Regarding future childcare for GC I had the discussion that I was not going to be available for regular hours but happy to do longer times and happy to have GC at my house if needed. When they got into medicine we had the talk about stress, not family friendly hours, low pay and moving around a lot. They decided to pursue their dream of becoming a DR knowing all the downsides.

Don’t be afraid to do it. But, plan and research and keep a base in the UK.

I also live overseas. I don’t have kids myself but have friends here who have kids and GC in UK.
2 couples have recently bought properties in UK as bolt holes for themselves and their families.
One couple has one daughter with a 23 y/o son (their GS) - GSon used to come but doesnt anymore. Their DD never comes here, she’s just not interested so they always go to her. So they have sold everything here (they had 2 properties) so she won’t have to deal with it when they pass and now rent. I think they will end up going back.

The other couple’s kids and GC come to visit a lot and they also return very frequently during school hols to help with the GC- it seems to work for them for now but they are integrated here and have busy lives volunteering and socialising. I think they will stay here.

Growing old overseas can be fraught with all sorts of issues- most of all the bureaucracy - my DH and I still in our early and mid 50s have already planned to move to supported living but for now we are very much living for the moment.

Have you had conversations with your kids about it and your expectations of one another?
This will be your barometer but ultimately you have to do what is best for you, not anyone else.

Every time I return to UK to visit my Mum, I’m more convinced leaving was the best decision.

But life is full of ‘ifs’ and ‘buts’.
DM has had several health issues over the years and has had better care than she’d have had in UK.
she does have great private healthcare but as she’s got older has used the local system more.
couldn’t be more impressed.

it was meant to be a move for her and dad but he sadly died a few months before their house was finished, so she’s been on this adventure alone.

TBH they never ‘asked’ for permission to live their lives how they wanted, just like my brother and I haven’t.

crazy to think you shouldn’t live your dream for fear of the future.

Have you considered what will happen when you get old and ill? Please think about that and then don't inflict it on your children. I say this from lived experience.

Why don't you just rent somewhere there for a few years in your early retirement instead of selling up?

My friend’s parents did this (one parent was Spanish, one British, my friend born in Britain, parents moved to Spain when she was in her 40s, they in their 60s). No GC, but her siblings, also UK based have DC. It was fine at first when they were in good health, but first one deteriorated, then the other, my friend spent most of her annual leave for several years going back and forth and struggling because her own Spanish isn’t fluent and because she was the one without DC so could manage it more easily, needless to say this has caused resentment. They are both dead now and she and her siblings have been left with a massive headache of dealing with an estate with property in both countries and again the bulk of it has fallen to her because the others have their own family commitments. I know other people with parents abroad who like visiting but resent that it eats up so much annual leave every year and limits their ability to holiday elsewhere.

My parents live 15 miles from us. When my first DC was due (first DGC) my mum said she had seen her friends run themselves ragged looking after DGC and she ddn’t want to do that. However when he was born she suggested looking after him for one day a week while I worked, which was brilliant, she said a few years later she was so glad she made that decision and shudders to think she nearly didn’t. They are well off and have always been very independent but they are gradually needing more support, they always said they wouldn’t rely on us but the reality is, they are not ready for actual carers yet but are starting to need more support with IT, admin, odd jobs around the house and we are very glad they aren’t any further away, there have been numerous instances on the last 10 years of one of them being rushed to hospital and we are very glad to be able to get there easily and visit, talk to doctors etc. They can no longer travel without a great deal of assistance and if they were abroad they wouldn’t be coming back any more I don’t think.

I’m not saying don’t do it, but prepare very carefully.

@drivinmecrazy I simply answered your question about the negative posts. People have different experiences to you...

I haven't been able to see my GP face to face for years now so I am going to hazard I will have better paid health care in another ( English speaking) country.

crazy to think you shouldn’t live your dream for fear of the future

people are saying to consider the future when planning your dream.

We have thought about it but instead have decided to stay in the UK and spend months abroad each year. We'll be retiring in 3-5 years and have decided that it makes sense to do this on many levels - proximity to our DC and any future DGC, access to healthcare etc, it will be easier for them to deal with our inevitable declining health, deaths and estates, and an opportunity to experience different cultures by renting in different countries.

I just couldn't do it

My sister moved to Australia in her 20s (mostly to escape our family) and then our parents emigrated there too, keeping a flat in the UK but packing all their relationship troubles with them.

It's not gone well - my parents live in the same house but no longer speak. They are very isolated as they haven't managed to make friends and my sister has made it clear that she has her own life and doesn't really bother with them.

I do miss my family but given the rows and general mayhem in Australia, I think maybe it's just as well I'm on the periphery of the family doing my own thing. The UK base has now been sold so they won't come back.

I suppose if you have a family with good communication and you're adaptable then a move might work but keeping a place in the UK is probably wise.

My parents decided to go on an adventure and moved to Portugal when my dad was offered voluntary redundancy and a big lump sum. They were mid -late 50’s. They had 6 kids ranging from 21-31. They kept their house here and my brother and his DW moved in with their dc and rented their house (lots of negative equity due to 2008 crash). We travelled to see them several times a year for holidays. They loved it and stayed for 7-8 years. Decided to come home when my DGM became unwell. They missed their DGC and could see the close relationship they were having with their other GPs. My parents rented a beautiful house in Portugal, and were really pleased they never bought. Came home sold the family home and downsized. I don’t think retiring away from family is a great choice. Can you go for a few years and not permanently?

My parents moved to France when they were 60 odd, mainly because they were renting in the UK, but could buy and renovate cheaply there, compared to the SE. After 10 years my mum was constantly on the phone to me, telling me how lonely rural France was. The only way they could come back to the SE was by them moving into our property which we had previously let out, at a VASTLY reduced rent to them. My opinion, if there is any way you can afford to keep a UK base, even a small flat, do so, do not allow yourself to get stuck overseas, life changes massively between 60 and 70.

Really hard OP, not the same but our eldest now lives in Spain, with his family, went before the little one was born, he was closest to us, walking distance, it broke his dads heart, the middles one is closest now, ten mins, never ever see him and that hurts me a lot, lucky if I get a hour once a month, the youngest is four hours away.

whilst I can see it would be great to have them holiday with you the one thing I would say IS, as much a I love going to Spain to see DC1 I do resent the huge chunk of money it costs us to go stops us doing other holidays we would like to go on.

so you might find you’re in France but they will only have so much holiday and so much money for holidays that actually they may say sorry mum but we want to go other places.