Adult drama queen daughter wants to move home

[Yespresh]

To say our daughter has put us through emotional hell in the past 5 years is an understatement.

As an 18 year old she was so keen to be independent that this house was bought with a self contained annexe for her. She lived here for a few months caused havoc, moved two homeless boyfriends in (not at the same time). She took drugs, stole from us, lied, pretty sure she was also supplying drugs. She has also accused us of abusing her but wasn't able to say how or when. Basically you name it, she’s done it.

Moving on a few years and boyfriends she now has a new job as a glamour model, wants to be nearer London and she is now saying she wants to move home. We currently have a lodger in the annexe who would have to leave. It is OK that the lodger leaves and she moves home but I am not sure I can cope with her behaviour.

At the moment it is me, DH and DS26 who has ADHD at home. DS26 is not at all happy.

After a lot of research into our daughter’s unusual behaviour we realise she may have narcissism. We have been reading up about it. She can be horribly verbally abusive and will turn on you very quickly. She has zero empathy. During my recent cancer treatment and horrendous chemo she didnt make contact at any time to offer support, sympathy or even a card. The last few times I have seen her I usually stay silent but I can’t live like that. I can’t have her here and be tiptoeing around her.

So I will have to make our very nice, quiet lodger homeless in exchange for our narcissistic daughter who may decide after a week or so she doesn’t want to live here any more because we are such horrible parents.

Your thoughts?

She sounds like she has really struggled, a 14/15 Yr old is still a child and if sounds like she suffered some trauma. People throwing around BPD/NPD doesn't help, some people are far into adulthood before they get a diagnosis of such conditions and BPD especially is extremely hard to live with. I wouldn't let her move in, but I think you need to come off the defensive a bit and try to understand what could have made her like this. Narcissists / personality disorders are usually the product of a person's environment, so it might be worth taking a look at yourself and her childhood for some answers.

I think the problem is now that she will not want to get help as she does not see herself as having a problem . And as she is now an Adult there is nothing you can do about that .

So personally I would say say no - and if she cant be bothered to recognise your suffering whilst having cancer treatment then she should know that is the reason why . If there is some other way you can help her then fair enough .

She'll not be happy with just a few nights on a camp bed - good luck with that

"My son tried to explain it to her but she just didnt get why I wouldn’t watch it."

Did she really not get it or it just suited her not to?

"As an 18 year old she was so keen to be independent that this house was bought with a self contained annexe for her."

Wow! I find that hard to get past tbh.

Maybe you didn't move far & it wasn't a big deal, but the whole family uprooting for her.

Obviously what you did/didn't do seems to have to be twisted to fit her narrative.

Her brother is 4 years older than her. We have all asked ourselves what could have happened to her but we have no idea. She has also been extremely nasty to one of her grandmothers so we have that to deal with too. She has asked for an apology and DD has refused.

Maybe I sound cold. There is no emotion in the written word and I have managed to distance myself emotionally from her quite well as it was really affecting my mental health. Having a cancer diagnosis, major surgery and chemo and having an adult son who can’t look after himself means my plate has been pretty full.

@AfterSchoolWorry

You have one Neuro divergent child.

Neuro divergency in women is often mistaken for personality/mood disorders.

Those are far more likely than narcissism tbh.

This

It's likely (70% chance when one sibling has it that the other does too) she has adhd as well - it often goes unnoticed in girls and women

I wouldn't let her move back until she's had support, therapy, meds - whatever she needs to get her shit under control

Not excusing her in the slightest, and she may well also be a narcissist, but I think possible neurodivergence needs investigating and support.

IF you do let her move back, then there needs to be clear, strict and enforced rules.

Don't expect her to be a mind reader, spell literally everything out, plus consequences for breaking it.

I am so sorry you are in this situation.Mostly we try our best to give our children a happy life but sometimes for whatever reason it all goes so wrong.I have experienced some of your issues including cancer. So much help and support was given at huge emotional cost but to no avail we are now NC.Please consider all the family it will be hell if you let her live with you again could you try again to obtain counselling and MH support with her consent.So sorry.

@Yespresh

I think one of the main issues really is that she knows how to behave and speak to people in a civil way as she has been working in customer facing roles. If she spoke to those people like she does her family she wouldn’t be working there the next day. So the venom is saved for us. When I told her I didn’t want to watch the film about the woman dying of cancer she flipped and left the house as soon as she could. My son tried to explain it to her but she just didnt get why I wouldn’t watch it.

She says we abused her and if I ask how she says things like I didn't tuck her in. Well her Dad tucked her in and read stories every night. They were both loved and cared for. She said I didnt make her food but she had food made for her every night but she refused to come downstairs to eat it. So is this abuse????

OP, to answer the question raised: no, I don't think it's a good idea to let her move back in.

Also, I am dismayed by all the posters who have pathologised the daughter's behaviour, especially those who are blaming the OP. Your posts are disgraceful.

@Yespresh

All suggestions welcome. Done everything we can think of to help her. The last one we havent yet done is to ‘throw money at the situation’ and pay her rent elsewhere for her. She is heavily in debt with credit cards and ow has an IVA.

*She was self harming at 14/15. She has got involved in drugs she has ended up in glamour work.*

She sounds like she needs some help to be honest.

I agree with this. "Party girl" and "glamour model" - it's one step up from being a prostitute to fund a drug habit. Does she even have any kind of proper glamour modelling or porn job? Like on the payroll somewhere or freelance and paying taxes, working with businesses in that sector? Or is this just her advertising herself all over the internet on free platforms like Instagram and somehow (doing what exactly?) getting money for it?

I'm willing to bet these homeless "boyfriends" she moved in were homeless due to drug use/lifestyle at the property or rent arrears due to spending that money on drugs. I'm also willing to bet she let them move in because they were supplying her with drugs.

So I'm not sure throwing money at the situation is going to help at all. It just enables her to carry on as she is with her "party" lifestyle. Possibly she needs to reach rock bottom then get involved with drug rehabilitation services. There's not much you can actually do if she chooses drugs over therapy. I guess you could offer to pay for therapy again, on the understanding that you could be wasting the money if she doesn't attend and being prepared to not be upset about that.

No way would I put her in the Annex. Strict boundaries (no drugs, etc) and in the house where you can make sure she sticks to her agreements might do her the world of good if you're up for the challenge!

Absolutely don’t do it. You know it’s a recipe for disaster.

Oh OP please save yourself. Even if your daughter is Nero divergent this is not a reason or excuse for the way she has treated you.

She is sn adult. Time to make her own way and learn from her mistakes. Like you have, and continue to.

You can support her in other ways but still draw the line at her moving in. It isn’t an all or nothing situation.

I don’t think it will help your relationship to just slip back into old patterns. Don’t let her move back in but perhaps suggest family counselling. If she wants to repair things, she’ll seriously consider this.

@Doubledenimrock

Oh OP please save yourself. Even if your daughter is Nero divergent this is not a reason or excuse for the way she has treated you.

She is sn adult. Time to make her own way and learn from her mistakes. Like you have, and continue to.

There is no evidence for this.

@Yespresh

She has asked to stay for a few nights next week as she is working in London. She’ll be on a fold up bed in the sitting room. We will try and have a conversation with her about all of this. The last time she stayed over she wanted me to watch a film with her about a woman who dies of cancer. When I said I didn’t want to she said “it’s not about you” and wasn’t able to connect how it would make me feel with stage 3 cancer.

OMG I'm so sorry OP, both for the cancer and your daughter's stunningly insensitive response. I wouldn't be letting her stay after that.

Or give both of them an ultimatum. Say they can both stay for one year and during that year they need to sort their lives and finances out and move out permanently into a place they can afford with a job they can hold down.

Or would be unreasonable to do this to OP DS if he's mentally Incapable of doing this. Treating both DC the same is not "fair" when their needs are different.

OP could you or your DH have a chat with her about the high possibility of her also being neuro-divergent? And offer to support her in seeking screening for this, so that if she does have a diagnosable condition she could receive whatever help is a for it.

If you're looking for childhood trauma, having an undiagnosed condition and a disabled brother taking up the majority of your parents time, meaning your unknown-about needs go unmet, could be it.

No. Way.

When you feel the inevitable guilt that she will pile on you, just remember when you were suffering with cancer. And she didnt give a shit. Did she feel any guilt? Did she fuck.

Teach her to be an adult. You do this by NOT giving in to her demands.

I think there comes a time when you have to say no. Maybe some of her behaviour is as a result of her never being told no, maybe she is a narcissist, or maybe she's just not a nice person. But she's an adult now. There's no way I'd move a lodger out to move her in. Even without the lodger I'd not let her move back.

Simply tell her that her behaviour and actions have consequences and as such you are not in a position to move her back in. Time for her to stand on her own two feet. If she begs and cries still say no, if she paints you as the bad guy still say no, if she bad mouths you to others still say no.

Don't get into explanations. Just say 'sorry, its not possible'. If she wheedles just say it again 'sorry, not possible'. She wont be happy but it will less hassle than letting her move in.

I think one of the main issues really is that she knows how to behave and speak to people in a civil way as she has been working in customer facing roles. If she spoke to those people like she does her family she wouldn’t be working there the next day. So the venom is saved for us. When I told her I didn’t want to watch the film about the woman dying of cancer she flipped and left the house as soon as she could. My son tried to explain it to her but she just didnt get why I wouldn’t watch it.

My son with asd can be like this, he is an absolute model pupil at school, can and does behave impecibly then when he gets home all of that pent up stress that he had been absorbing all day from school can get released at home when he is in his 'safe space' amongst his people. It means nothing that he is the most well mannered, wouldn't put a toe wrong pupil at school, he still has asd and he still struggles.

My dh has ASD too, I was actually convinced for a while before our son got diagnosed, then dh getting diagnosed that he was a narcissist. He can find it difficult to know what to do in emotional situations, like when someone close to him is sick. It isn't that he isn't concerned or doesn't feel any empathy he just struggles to know what to do with those feelings and can sometimes just shut down and pretend it isn't happening.

I'm not saying that your dd has asd or that you should let her move in with you but I suppose I just wanted to say that sometimes things aren't black and white and yes,I think you actually should cut people with disabilities some extra slack sometimes although that doesn't seem to be a popular opinion here. If your dd won't get some support for her issues though there probably isn't much you can do but let her know that although you care very much for her it isn't practical for her to move back in with you.

I agree with PPs that she sounds neurodivergent. My brother underwent a number of assessments as a child for ASD and ADHD, got the support he needed and has grown up to be a very balanced adult. It turns out I also have ASD and ADHD (plus dyspraxia, dyslexia and social anxiety disorder for good measure), I was left to deal with it alone and I'm a burnt out, anxious wreck. It presents very differently in women. The fact that you say she is able to put on a "customer service face" suggests she is masking.

I also thought for years that my mother was a narcissist but now that I've been diagnosed, I've realised that her issues (only wants to talk about herself, doesn't listen during a conversation that's not focused on her, short temperedness, being blunt/rude, lack of consideration for others, etc) are probably ADHD traits. A lot sensory issues I have, I'm started to remember her having when I was younger.

OP, I'm trying to imagine what I'd do. I think I'd meet her in some neutral territory and say you want her to always feel welcome at home but her behaviour was so cruel and aggressive that you have to be 100% sure it won't be repeated. Ask her now that she's older, if she's ever reflected on how she treated you when she was younger and if she has worked out why. Ask if she feels any differently - kinder and more considerate towards your illness. Ask if she'd make a proper adult contribution to life at home, helping with cooking, cleaning etc as well as taking the necessary breathing space to make new plans for her own life.

I'd want to show support and willingness to help but with firm, unbendable clarifications that she can never put you through that sort of hell again.

But do be careful you're not scapegoating her. If your son has such challenging ADHD that he can't live unaided then her childhood will have been affected by that.

Just say no.

OP, I haven't rtft, but essentially, you bought one house, specifically to suit your 18yr old DD living preferences. She was disrespectful, and then left.

Having lived on her own for the last few years, and making false claims of abuse about you, and generally being unpleasant whilst you have stage 3 cancer, she has informed you that she wants to live near London to suit her work, and therefore you need to sell up the first house you purchased to suit how she wanted to live, and move yourself, DH and DS to London, so she can use your house as her own.

Do you hear how batshit that sounds??

If your adult daughter wants to live near to London because she's trying a new career that it would help if she lives there, then you know what your adult daughter does? She stops renting the flat she's currently in, and she finds herself one nearer to London. Why are you even involved in this scenario??

I can't believe you're even contemplating this.

"she is now saying she wants to move home."
To be blunt - it's not her home. It ceased to be her home quite some time ago. So you tell her no. You said that "My DH has always been much too forgiving and perhaps indulged her too much." So you also tell your DH that he'd better show a united front with you too. No more indulgence! She's an adult, and a pretty nasty one at that.

"She has asked to stay for a few nights next week as she is working in London. She’ll be on a fold up bed in the sitting room. We will try and have a conversation with her about all of this."
Seriously, don't do this. You say she's heavily in debt, there's a good chance she'll steal from you as she leaves. Or just trash the place for fun. SAY NO. I would not let her over the door, not even for a few nights. Are you sure she'd leave anyway? More likely to work on her dad to get whatever she can, isn't she? Even if all she can get is to sow division between you and your husband.

Yes she's your daughter and refusing her a bed is hard. But there are three other people to consider here - you, your son, your husband. "DS26 is not at all happy." You sound as if you are dreading her (understandably and rightly so). Your husband should be made to see that indulging her is actually not in her long-term interests.

Say no.