Adult drama queen daughter wants to move home

[Yespresh]

To say our daughter has put us through emotional hell in the past 5 years is an understatement.

As an 18 year old she was so keen to be independent that this house was bought with a self contained annexe for her. She lived here for a few months caused havoc, moved two homeless boyfriends in (not at the same time). She took drugs, stole from us, lied, pretty sure she was also supplying drugs. She has also accused us of abusing her but wasn't able to say how or when. Basically you name it, she’s done it.

Moving on a few years and boyfriends she now has a new job as a glamour model, wants to be nearer London and she is now saying she wants to move home. We currently have a lodger in the annexe who would have to leave. It is OK that the lodger leaves and she moves home but I am not sure I can cope with her behaviour.

At the moment it is me, DH and DS26 who has ADHD at home. DS26 is not at all happy.

After a lot of research into our daughter’s unusual behaviour we realise she may have narcissism. We have been reading up about it. She can be horribly verbally abusive and will turn on you very quickly. She has zero empathy. During my recent cancer treatment and horrendous chemo she didnt make contact at any time to offer support, sympathy or even a card. The last few times I have seen her I usually stay silent but I can’t live like that. I can’t have her here and be tiptoeing around her.

So I will have to make our very nice, quiet lodger homeless in exchange for our narcissistic daughter who may decide after a week or so she doesn’t want to live here any more because we are such horrible parents.

Your thoughts?

We tried very hard to help her as a teen. She wouldn’t do anything we asked. She wouldn’t even come down to eat a meal. She wouldnt talk to us. We tried to get a third party to talk to her, we tried the GP and counselling so where do you go from there? She has pushed us away and verbally abused us all at every opportunity so don’t be surprised I don’t like her very much.

Yes I am embarrassed by her sexually suggestive work (and Ig account with old men telling her what they want to do to her) when she is clever enough to have done just about any work she wanted.

@Yespresh

We tried very hard to help her as a teen. She wouldn’t do anything we asked. She wouldn’t even come down to eat a meal. She wouldnt talk to us. We tried to get a third party to talk to her, we tried the GP and counselling so where do you go from there? She has pushed us away and verbally abused us all at every opportunity so don’t be surprised I don’t like her very much.

Yes I am embarrassed by her sexually suggestive work (and Ig account with old men telling her what they want to do to her) when she is clever enough to have done just about any work she wanted.

This, tied with the pervious self harm episodes would indicate that she is probably more likely to be Borderline than Narcissistic (although there can be crossovers).

The diagnostic criteria are below. Obviously you are not a trained mental health professional so it should be taken with a pinch of salt, but it might be worth reading up on if it does look like it could be a factor.

F60.30 Impulsive type
At least three of the following must be present, one of which must be:
marked tendency to act unexpectedly and without consideration of the consequences;
marked tendency to engage in quarrelsome behaviour and to have conflicts with others, especially when impulsive acts are thwarted or criticized;
liability to outbursts of anger or violence, with inability to control the resulting behavioural explosions;
difficulty in maintaining any course of action that offers no immediate reward;
unstable and capricious (impulsive, whimsical) mood.
F60.31 Borderline type
At least three of the symptoms mentioned in F60.30 Impulsive type must be present [see above], with at least two of the following in addition:
disturbances in and uncertainty about self-image, aims, and internal preferences;
liable to become involved in intense and unstable relationships, often leading to emotional crisis;
excessive efforts to avoid abandonment;
recurrent threats or acts of self-harm;
chronic feelings of emptiness;
demonstrates impulsive behavior, e.g., speeding in a car or substance use.
The ICD-10 also describes some general criteria that define what is considered a personality disorder.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder#International_Classification_of_Disease

Time to parent OP and step back and look at this logically.I am in no doubt you love your daughter and want nothing but good in her life for her but she is on a slippery slope and its time to stop enabeling her.You are her parent not her best friend and as parents we often have to make tough decisions which our kids do not like,will rebel against and will not make us popular,I know this I have a 31 yr old so been there.She is not on the right track at all and she stamps her feet throws her weight around and has no consequences to face at all for her actions. No where in the real world would anyone survive happily and successfully with her attitude.You have,as a family let her believe she is all powerful and sadly she isn;t.Where is the respect for you for all you have done?for all your sacrifices?for you as a parent? Enough now.She is 23 yrs old and entitled and spoilt.She is old enough to work,have a family of her own,get married,buy a home,travel the world anything at all but like the rest of society she is an adult and has to stand on her own two feet and take responsibility.You have no rights over her anymore so she must realise as an adult she now stands on her own two feet and sorts her life out. Time now for you to step back and think of your recovery and your life and what matters to you going forward. How she behaves with you is only because you let her think she can, She wouldnt demand and carry on like she does in the workplace or anywhere else.I suggest ripping the plaster off and telling her you love her and will always be in her corner should she ever genuinely need you but now she makes her own life and rise or fall manages it on her own,you are done and you have had enough,Until you do this cycle of abuse and disrespect will continue to blight you and your life will not be worth living,It might make her grow up and that seems long over due. You matter and your quality of life and entl health are just as important as hers.Put your wants and needs first now you deserve some peace. I wish you well

No don't do it. She hasn't changed. If you let her move back in, she will never leave.

@WholeClassKeptIn

Wow I feel for her actually.

You clearly don't like or respect her. You are very dismissive of her problems

She was self harming at 14/15.
She has got involved in drugs
she has ended up in glamour work.

She sounds like she needs some help to be honest.

This

You sound very harsh!

All suggestions welcome. Done everything we can think of to help her. The last one we havent yet done is to ‘throw money at the situation’ and pay her rent elsewhere for her. She is heavily in debt with credit cards and ow has an IVA.

You're enabling her behaviour. Let her fend for herself, she's an adult now!

@Unsure1983

I'd look into the causes of narcissism before throwing that term about because it won't reflect well on you.

This.

@Yespresh

I was thinking about some sort of therapy. Not sure how to approach this though. She gets aggressive quickly.

Unsure1983 I have looked into the causes of narcissism already. Yes I admit to telling both my children they were fabulous because no one ever told me I was as a child and it has always affected my self esteem.

It's much more difficult to look at your DD's behaviour as a whole family issue than it is to label her and therefore turn her into the outlier.

Please read up on the concept of the "identified patient". Then go for family therapy rather than suggesting that she is the only one with the problem.

Thank you Matilda1Think this actually looks more like her than narcissism. She has an IVA for credit card debt even though she has been earning a lot of money.

I agree you do sound harsh. Your comment about having to be bad cop during her childhood was a red flag. Kids who don’t feel loved often act out for attention.

She may well have mental health problems, I don’t think you’ll get that diagnosed on mumsnet though. People will have lots of helpful ideas, but your family needs help from trained counsellors.

I agree with the other poster who said use some of your rental income to fund help for her if you can. It’s time to start talking to her in a loving way about the issues and really listen to what she says. If she has a better relationship with her dad, it might need to come from him in the first instance.

Narcissists aren't born, they are made. If I were you I would worry less about labelling her and more about helping her become a more responsible adult.

You won't be helping her by letting her move back in and abuse you. Nor will you be helping her by making up stories about your tenant. Be honest with her. Let her know that actions have consequences. Tell her you've thought it over and have decided that based on past experience you don't want her to move into the annex but you want to help her so you will do XXXX instead. Make the offer of help with rent or a loan for a deposit or a cash gift or whatever works for you and stick to it. She might stomp off in a huff for a while but she'll be back.

I was thinking it sounds more like borderline than narcissism.

You need boundaries OP. Loving, firm boundaries. Don't let her move back in but if you can afford it then personally I'd pay a deposit on a rented place/shared room if she can afford the rent. Otherwise I'd be directing her to citizens advice.

You cannot help someone or care more about their support then what they care themselves. You can be there to direct to support and know that by having boundaries you are helping her.

@AfterSchoolWorry

You have one Neuro divergent child.

Neuro divergency in women is often mistaken for personality/mood disorders.

Those are far more likely than narcissism tbh.

This is exactly what I thought on reading the OP.

I know this might be very difficult nowadays but I'd be very reluctant to be a guarantor on her rent. I'm not convinced she'd pay it or that she'd leave the place in a good state, particularly if she knew the penalty would land on you.

Why is it always oh she must be on the spectrum so let her get away with things

the woman yes woman dealt drugs robbed and trated her family like shit but thats ok because shes not NT

people still have to have consequences to their actions

She sounds very much like my sister. Now in her 40’s. We all keep a gentle LC relationship with her. She is very unknown…..she can be nice or absolutely awful if things aren’t exactly her way. We need to be mind readers to know what she wants - which makes it difficult as we all basically a bunch of nerves when around her (which is rare)

Both parents and extended members of the family have given money over the years. She has had counselling as she got older. The issue is it’s never ever her fault ever :( where as I know maybe I should have kept my mouth shut but when she bully my Mum I eventually snapped the last time.
I think she has BPD - but she would hate to be labelled with anything as she truly believes it’s everyone else and not her. We tried family therapy and that didn’t end well as she didn’t like the outcome (being nicely told we all have to change she honestly can’t see her behaviour being an issue)
I wouldn’t let her move in but be present in support and help with finding a more suitable option - caution around paying to much as the expectation will then be there for longer. Offer maybe a deposit but make it clear that is it - don’t leave anything open ended.

She's an adult. She needs to sort her own life out and not rely on being bailed out by you. And I guarantee that if you let her move back in, you will end up regretting it.

She needs to stand on her own two feet and find her own accommodation, eg a house/flat share, and start sorting her life out.

Females with ADHD present differently to males with ADHD - its very common for this to run in families so I would research whether her behaviour could also be ADHD. If she does there is a reasonable chance one of her parents have it too - hence the clashing.

Noooooooooo

I definitely think it's worth a go trying to get her support, but from a distance. And it clearly isn't going to be an instant fix.

Like cantthink I have to keep my sister at arms length a bit, because, whatever her MH problems or disorder, she bullies people and is truly nasty. When there are other people to consider, it means that you do need to keep a safe distance for your own protection.1

It is different for parents rather than siblings I appreciate.

I'm not sure it's entirely helpful for posters to offer amateur remote diagnosis of serious conditions, although I know people have helped by providing links etc. Also not sure it's helpful to try to identify what terrible thing op must have done wrong for her dd to turn out like this. You might get it right, but you honestly don't know. I'm trying not to police the thread, but I just know what mumsnet can be like and it's often a game of "how can we blame the op" for a small minority if posters.

I'm probably projecting a little due to my experience with what my sister did to my own sick mum before she died and maybe feeling a bit protective of the op!

So, everyone is telling you not to evict your lodger and move her back in. (I agree)

Are you still going to?

Oh please of course you don’t have to do it

Just tell her you are not moving, if she wishes to then that’s her choice and let her get on with it

But whether she is neurodivergent or not, the advice would be the same.

Letting her move back would be a huge mistake for every relationship involved.

If she needs help, allowing her to go through the old pattern again is exactly the wrong way of giving that help.

There needs to be a boundary both to protect you and your family and to start helping her at least a little bit to understand that she CAN'T act like this through life. She can't demand and stomp over people, they will - in the end - simply reject her. The more you roll over, the more you help her along a path to where she eventually has no-one.

Of course, you refusing may not help her directly, in that she probably won't learn from it right here right now. That's fine. The main aim is to protect you. But at least you won't be holding open yet another door along the road to her becoming ever more entitled and dislikeable.