Will my daughter be ok living with her dad?

[Wish44]

hi, I am looking for experience of people who went to live with their dads when they were teens and those mothers who’s daughter have gone to live with their dads. Were you/they ok?

my daughter is 14 . I separated from her dad when she was 3 . She has lived two hours away with me and seen dad and new wife EOw and half holidays. He is ok to her- bit cold and critical and quite strict . She doesn’t talk to him or seek advice about things.

he has his wife have persuaded my daughter that her state school is rubbish and that if she moves to them they will pay for private education. Even though she is happy here with friends and a positive relationship with me. She talks to me and likes spending time with me. I am an emotionally warm and available person.

this means she will see me and her younger sibling EOW for less than 48 hours and half the holidays .But this will become less when she makes new fiends there and wants to stay up there.

i am devestated for myself and all I will miss out on but mostly I am worried that she just can’t see what I bring to her life ( understandably because of her age and we take mums for granted ) . Please share any experiences of this.

I have read all the threads on mumsnet but they don’t often have outcomes - and are often about children leaving in a row . This is so different. Very considered . No fall outs . Thanks

Thanks for this and it’s good to hear different views.

he is cold with both my children and I know this as they tell me. They know he loves them and he does love them I know that.

my daughter has never talked about living with him before. She has never asked for a moment more time with him than she has. She is only talking about it living with him now we so she can go to the good school .

if my daughter becomes as determined to move as you were as a child i would support it , albeit with heavy heat. But she isn’t . She is really struggling with the decision.

Sit down and have a conversation with her about dating now that she is 14. Get her to read Lundy Bancroft's "Why Does He Do That". You can get free PDFs of it online or buy a physical copy. Focus on it as a dating thing, since you won't be there during the week anymore and she'll be in a new school with new boys.

Talk about the book with her (read it yourself) and once she has had time to digest it, she may start to see the toxic behaviour of her father for herself. It needs to be something she discovers on her own or she won't really believe it, but you can give her the tools to help her.

Then just sit back and try and make it as easy as possible for her to come home if it all goes tits up. If it does somehow work out well and this school is the best thing for her, then I'd look into moving closer.

I would be stressing to her that if she decides to do this it will be until at least taking her GCSE’s and that she will not be able to come home every weekend. Can she use public transport to get back to yours?

yes I have read it.

I know I am saying he is cold and critical but I don’t think he is abusive towards my children and I hope that is not how he is coming across on this thread.

he isn’t abusive he is just cold and can be critical. When we were together he was keen on the silent treatment and was over bearing but he doesn’t do that to the children.

however this is helpful for me. I do think damage is done by cold and critical but it is not so bad it’s abuse and while I am definitely a warmer and more emotional available parent she would still have me at the end of the phone.

my worry is the drip drip effects. So on the every day basis where one doesn’t see much of a teenager as they are in their rooms but on the occasions they pop out i am warm and listen and hopefully give good advice - if she moves she won’t get this. She will be at best alone as he won’t be able to talk to her and at worst will make her feel bad when she does.

That’s nonsense.

I work in education and have worked across primary, secondary, FE and HE, so I’m not speaking from some abstract idea of what schools are like.

What ultimately matters for progression is attainment, and the idea that the name of the school somehow matters more than the grades a child achieves is ridiculous. Private schools generally have smaller classes, more resources, fewer behavioural disruptions and more capacity to give individual attention. Pretending those things make no difference is simply not credible.

State schools can have excellent teachers and achieve fantastic results, but many are also dealing with enormous pressures that private schools simply don’t face to the same extent. Teachers are stretched, classes can be large, and persistent disruption can affect the learning environment for everyone. That isn’t an insult to state-school teachers — quite the opposite. Many of them are doing an incredibly difficult job with limited resources.

If I could comfortably afford private school for my child, I would send them without hesitation. I’ve seen enough of the education system from the inside to know that pretending all schools offer the same environment is just detached from reality.

You’ve said you will say no. I will issue a word of caution, there is nothing stopping your daughter refusing to come home next time she visits him.

If the ex and his wife have persuaded your daughter the school is the better choice they could also persuade her to stay. If they do that it is extremely difficult for you to reverse the situation.

I would try one more time to have a conversation about what your daughter thinks going there will look like. If she does out of school activities with you how will she keep them up at the new school?

Private school days are longer, you said she has a half/step sibling at her father’s house, does she know what their activities are because your daughter needs to understand her activities will have to fit around the child that is already in the house.

She will have significantly more homework at the private school than she has now, will her dad be willing to drive her to activities like you do now? She needs to understand what it will look like.

Honestly I’d let her go and experience it, get it out of the way now, before she is in year 10. Once she is in year 10 the courts won’t make her change schools again because of the disruption to her education and frankly speaking if her dad persuades her to vote with her feet, you won’t get her back via the courts without a good reason beyond you think her dad is cold.

I speak as a parent of a a kid who was in private education between Reception and Year 11. In fact, I literally only just stopped paying for it. It's a total waste of money most of the time. Private schools face the same problems with bullying and bad teachers and non-effective leadership. The fact that classes are smaller quite often makes it worse because the pool of friends is much smaller. Private teachers don't even need to be qualified teachers.

Oh gosh, this seems a terrible idea to me. 14 is such a bad age to change school, from an emotional POV. Girls at their cliquiest and least secure stage of life aren't likely to be very welcoming unless she's one of the really cool kids currently, in which case she'll probably get on OK. Will she be arriving in the middle of GCSE syllabus coverage and have lots to catch up on? This is all kinds of wrong if there's a perfectly good status quo. Clean start at 6th Form, why not? Now, god no.

After I finished my PhD, I was trying to get into private schools to teach, but by then the changes to private-school taxation, including the 20% VAT on school fees, were coming in, and there seemed to be fewer job opportunities available.

That was my experience, but it doesn’t mean the teachers who are already working in private schools aren’t highly qualified. From what I can see, the private schools around me have teachers with BAs, MAs, PGCEs and even PhDs.

Bullying can happen anywhere, but there can be a big difference in how the school and parents deal with it. I’m sorry you had a bad experience, but I don’t think your experience is necessarily representative of private schools in general.

They don't have to though, which they do in state. And, as an aside I would rather my kids teachers had pgces than PhDs unless the doctorates were in education, because teaching is a skill and pedagogy is a discipline all of its own backed by decades of research, even though people seem to forget/ignore that.

I'm not saying private schools are bad (even ours wasn't a bad school) but outside the very famous schools, the value added by most private schools over and above good state schools is minimal at best. In fact, I would say grammar schools are usually better.

The Op's daughter is currently happy at her school and has good friends. How does the OP know she will integrate into established friendships in Y9 and make good friends at the private school? It's such a big risk to take leaping into the unknown for no apparent reason. An unhappy child will not do well even if the facilities were gold-platted, whereas a happy child can get all 9s in a comp.

I do have a PGCE and a PhD.

Again, the private schools around me require staff to have a BA + MA + PGCE, with some also holding PhDs.
Teaching while completing a PhD is a requirement in many programmes, and I did this while gaining over six years of university teaching experience. I don’t think it is accurate to suggest that this experience is less relevant simply because it was gained in higher education rather than a mainstream school.

I fully recognise the value of educational theory and teacher training, which is exactly why I completed my PGCE. However, teaching experience is not limited to one type of setting. Someone who has spent years teaching at university level, working with different learners and adapting their teaching methods, also develops valuable skills.

I also find it difficult to understand the idea that someone who completed a BA and PGCE and started teaching at 24 would automatically have more teaching experience than someone who has spent many years teaching in different educational environments. Experience comes from the quality and depth of the teaching one has done, not simply from the setting in which it took place.

Is it possible that the ex and his new wife are hoping your daughter will do unpaid care for their child?

Is it wrong to say "i dont think its a good idea. I dont think your access to after school clubs and friendships here will be facilitated long term, but please know my door is always open to you"

I wasn't talking about you specifically. I was talking about wanting teachers to have teaching qualifications and understand learning generally. It seems you do but lots of private schools don't require it.

Personally speaking, I wouldn't send my child to private school, even if I could afford to do so. I have been a primary teacher (state) for 22 years and now tutor.
My sons (one August-born and one late spring born) attended a small state village school. With my August-born I opted to only send him very part-time until he legally had to attend (term before 5).
When my boys were just 3 and 6 I left their dad; it was an incredibly acrimonious split (for reasons I won't go into - would take too long!) Our lives were turned upside down.
My sons have cousins very similar in aage to themselves. These cousins both attended private schools full-time from Reception and money was never an object for extra-curriculars etc.
Who achieved significantly better exam grades?

What an absolute bastard he is. If he was putting her first he'd send her to a private school which is near to her home. I'm sure his new wife doesn't want a teenage girl living there, one who's been forcibly separated from her mother and sibling.

I think you do have to take the decision out of her hands and say that this isn't the best thing for her. It's far better for her mental health that she stays in her home with her mum and sibling, works hard at school and has extra tuition where necessary.

I think your husband and his wife just want to win this fight.

At 14, if she wants to go, there’s little you can do. A court would ask her what she wants. I would be honest and tell her you’re gutted but that you respect her decision. I suspect she will be back and he will be furious that he’s wasted his money, they’ll end up low contact etc. The worst case scenario for you is that it makes her really happy and she is well educated but I bet she comes back to you when the education is finished. Let him see how difficult a teenager can be.

I’m sorry for you though.

Your dd will need you more, not less in these next few years, especially as exams approach. Parenting teens as they grow is pretty challenging and they need a lot of parental guidance and input.

Your daughter can’t stand up to her father, he is railroading her but because he’s insisting it’s all about her education she thinks it’s for her own good. Tell her you’ve said you are happy for her to go to private school if she so wished but it’s got to be one closer so she still lives at home. Don’t budge @Wish44 if he’s that concerned about her education then he won’t mind shelling out a little bit more. That way you are on your daughter’s side if she wants to go to private school but you are refusing to split her and her siblings apart and have her move out of home. He can rant all he wants but you are saying yes to private education if daughter wants that!

Yes I totally agree with you and ex just does not have the time or skills.

the current situation is that my daughter has said she can’t decide and she wants me and her dad to. I am proud of her that she recognises that the decision is just too big for her. When she told me this I said the decision is likely to be no then and I asked how she felt about that and she shrugged and said it was fine and then started to talk to me about her hair- a far more normal topic of conversation for a child!

i have tried to discuss this with ex via text as we don’t speak , and to look at compromises such a private closer and tutors . He says no.

This was all last weekend and over the week she has gone back to her old self and has not spoken about it . I have asked and she just said oh I thought I wasn’t going. So with all this it has made me realise that this was a bad idea from the start and very badly done by my ex and that she was never that interested in the idea anyway.

so now I have to write him an email saying I will refuse permission for her to move schools. I am dreading it. And dreading the ramifications for my daughter.

but a massive thank you to mumsnet who helped me to find my strength and resolve with this.

I’m glad you have recognised that your DD was just bending to his pressure.

It will be ok, he can threaten court and take you to court. You can self rep so try to stay calm and not engage with any bullying that comes your way.

Have you asked why he won’t pay for private education if she lives with you?

Why is her getting a good education dependent on her upping sticks? She is old enough to think about this question and the answer.

If he is truly doing it for her then he would also pay for her education if she stayed with you.

I was brought up by my dad from age 9. He was a provider but it was so difficult. All men are different obviously but bodily changes and periods was very hard . He didn’t understand teenage interest in clothes , make up etc and just didn’t fund enough money . He bought shit gifts for Christmas and birthdays . It was all round difficult . Girls need their mums and boys need good role models in their dads .

Her nonchalance and going back to normal as the question is decided sounds like a teenage way of expressing relief.

She didn’t want to make the decision herself and you made the decision for her so she can mentally relax about it and also it’s not on her anymore to say no to her father.

It sounds like a good outcome.

I take back my earlier response that you should talk to her about why he won’t pay for her education is she stays with you. It sounds like she already knows so no need to dwell on it and like she is happy with your decision for her to stay.