How to say no to a friend’s daughter coming to my home?

[Janetwin]

My husband and I are good friends with a couple whose daughter (7) plays with my kids. This girl’s behaviour was always a bit difficult, willful, demanding, can be a bit mean with my kids. One day being super friendly and the next excluding one of them, locking them out of the room or the house and saying mean things. I put it down to kids though at times, when the mother comes to collect her, I’ll tell her what happened and the mother’s reaction tends to be:
“I think it’s great she feels so at home in your house”
“Well that’s what she wants”
“Oh we have bigger problems” (goes on to say the child is anxious or clinging, personally I don’t see that in the kid)
The child’s behaviour is getting increasingly worse, dangerous even. She locked one of my daughters out of the house in the freezing cold some months ago, said mean things and made her cry, told her she was stupid and no one likes her. When I told the mother about this she just said “this isn’t working for me” and then wouldn’t say another word. Like, literally, sat there silent. It was kinda awkward so I dropped it, assuming she would deal with the kid in her own way.
On one occasion recently, I caught her taking something that belonged to my daughter off her, and standing over my daughter smiling at her crying. I told the girl she was in the wrong but she just looked at me with a smirk and said “what are you going to do?” A few days later, we were out with the kids and the mother, my friend, and the child bent over double and started howling and gasping for breath. Like she had been sucker punched and saying over and over “jane hit me” (that’s not my real name but for the purpose of this post…). The mum rushed over and when I, shocked, said I didn’t touch her (both my daughters were standing beside me in shock), the mum just brushed it off with “it’s ok, sometimes she does this when she’s tired”.

I’m at the stage where I don’t want the child in my house but the parents are acting like nothing happened and, as they’re friends of ours, just keeping turning up at the door and expecting to leave the kid at ours “for play dates”. How do I approach this? We’re in a wider friends circle and I don’t think the kid behaves this way with our other friends children.

@sonjadog, maybe she picked it up on here.

Don't invite her around, don't let her in, if she calls around say sorry we are having family time and your daughter isn't available. 'time to go home now'. Stop allowing your kid to go over there and no to any playdates outside the home. If you see them out be polite but 'that doesn't work for us' to any invitation.

Cut all ties. This child is a nightmare. The mother is a nightmare. They are creating a nightmare for your kids. They are potentially creating a serious nightmare for you. Find your anger and your outrage. They are never stepping into your house or garden again. This child is never playing with your children again. You are never sharing the same air as these people again. I don't understand the relationship - husband's friend's wife? Whatever. Who cares. You and your children will never see these people again. And you will all feel a hell of a lot better for it.

This!

if that’s their response then you need some new (better) friends.

I really hope that this point has fully resonated with you.

This child lied that you hurt her, and acted convincingly as though it was true.

What if next time she accuses your husband of something? What if she lies, acts convincingly, and your husband gets arrested?

Kids that are liars are actually incredibly dangerous to be around, of course a jury will believe a sweet little girl (as they should the vast majority of the time!).

I don’t think you’ve said whether your DH is fully on board with cutting all ties with these people, but this is the point I think you should raise with him.

And then I’d be a little bit strategic, just to cover yourself, and get it in writing that she knows her daughter was lying about you hitting her.

So text her along the lines of - found it worrying that her daughter did this (describe the incident), say of course you have never hurt her, say that your friend confirmed at the time that she knows this and that this is something her daughter does when she’s tired. And ask in a faux concern sort of way whether they’re finding that her daughter is doing this kind of thing in other contexts or is it just with you? Is there anything you should do differently to make sure her daughter feels able to be honest and just say directly if she’s tired?

This kind of delusional mum will then probably confirm that her daughter only lies to you as she feels comfortable with you or something, but at least then you have it in writing so that this incident can’t be twisted to suggest that they cut you off for hitting their daughter. And if the worst happens and she makes other false allegations at least you’d have some evidence of lying.

I would cut ties. Especially if the child is capable of making false statements like “she hit me”

I know a woman who fosters children. She took in 2 sisters, and the eldest girls behaviour is exactly like this, to a T. Her accusations got the foster mom in a serious amount of trouble with school, social services and the police (via safeguarding) on more than one occasion.
The foster mom lost friends, lost her partner (because he didn’t want to stick around with a child making up lies about him either, for his own sake) nobody wanted to involve themselves in that, the child’s behaviour was so so challenging.
In the end, this woman gave the girls up and retired from fostering and her health has seriously declined. She was a good woman, and her reputation has been left in tatters.

The little girls behaviour in your post is like, mirror-image behaviour to the foster girls. You’re lucky the parent knows what she’s like and was able to say “oh she does this when she’s tired” because imagine the consequences, if not? But that’s not acceptable or normal behaviour at all, and her mom isn’t helping by skirting around the issues and burying her head in the sand. Essentially, she is condoning her behaviour by being soft. There’s no repuccusions because her mom won’t acknowledge it.
Her daughter might be ND & needs some intervention and re-direction/guidance, but that won’t happen while the mom makes up excuses.
It’s not going to end well and I personally wouldn’t want to be around when the sh*t hits the fan, which it inevitably will do. Especially as you have children of your own to look after and be there for.

Prioritise yourself and your family. Put a distance between you and this other family.

In an odd way, this reminds me a bit of that film (based on a true story) of a couple who adopted a child with dwarfism, only she wasn't a child and she made their lives hell.

What you've described goes beyond normal child squabbles and the little girl sounds like she has real problems, probably which the parents are refusing to acknowledge/burying their heads in the sand or simply don't know what to do about it. Whatever the case, do not have any more play dates, protect your own child and also yourselves. You might find out down the line that this child is exactly the same with others and no one else has spoken up.

@ItsNotLoveActually I’m curious, was there a real case where that happened? The Barnett family in America adopted a child called Natalia grace and then alleged that she was actually an adult with dwarfism and abandoned her, but as far as I’m aware it’s been proven since that she was genuinely a child.

Irrelevant to the thread really but if you mean Natalia Grace it was later proven she was actually a child and the parents abandoned her to live by herself when she was still a child. It’s a really sad story.

I would tell the parent she's no longer welcome and accept the friendship has likely run its course .
Her daughter accused you of assault and her mother brushed it off as no big deal and even insinuated she does this regularly , you need to protect yourself and your children .

You need to put a stop to this.

The girl bullies your kids, makes false accusations and is already well and truly fucked up. The mum is also a manipulative bully. The father is an adulterous piece of shit. All 3 bring serious negativity to your family. The solution is clear - get rid.

You cannot call out people like this. They deny/turn it round on you/all manner of manipulative weird shit.

Just get rid.

don’t answer the door if they try to drop the kid with you.

I agree with this. OP you need to cut these weirdos from your life.

Tell her it is a safeguarding issue because it is. She accuses you of abusing her. Tell her there will be no more play dates. If you meet, tell her it has to be in public with at least two other adults present. Tell her this is not just to protect yourself but also her child if she starts to object. You may find that with an attitude like hers your friendship is on shaky ground anyway. There can be no trust between you.

Your husband needs to be protecting his wife and child , not bothering about his friendship.

@LabradorLadbradoo and @modgepodge - sorry, I put it out there without intending it to be a real comparison but honestly it's the first thing I thought of (the film). Yes, it's totally irrelevant. I did put my own POV across after. Apologies to OP if I've derailed in anyway. Also, apologies to the real Dawn.

@ItsNotLoveActually thanks for answering and no worries, I went down a bit of a rabbit hole with the Natalia grace story actually, it was fascinating.

I have to ask, what does MN mean?

Mumsnet

MumsNet... 🙂

Her accusing you of hurting her could trigger social services. They’ll end up going to your daughter’s school and interviewing her to see if anything happens at home.
i know this because my best friend is a social worker for children’s services. Any reports made via school or another source and they interview all the children from the home at school to make a decision. I personally wouldn’t risk it for their friendship and I’d stop hanging out with them.

Yes, you can say now that you need to protect yourself from false accusations of harm. You are not prepared to put yourself in that danger. Plus, there isn't really a friendship there with your dc and you'd like the play dates to stop now.

I really cannot believe that the OP cannot see how perilously serious a lie can be.

School safeguarding doesn't weigh up the veracity of any accusation, they go into straight up reporting mode.

Even a hint of something like that, would be handed over immediately to an external body.

In my daughters school there were mandated persons dotted throughout all activities and classes.

We were under obligation to immediately report anything suspicious about a child to the Safeguarding Lead in the school.

An incident like this involving the OP would immediately trigger this.

In my 6 years of doing this, nothing ever arose, but there were a few incidents involving others.

If your Husband loses a friend because you have put a stop to the bullying and the possibility of being framed for harming a child then good riddance. His friend is having an affair that is directly affecting you and your family as is the one he is having an affair with. I would ring his affair partner and tell her of the consequences that their actions are having on you and your family and you are taking a step back from everyone who is involved including her. That the saying don’t shit on your own doorstep should include friend’s doorsteps too!

I wouldn't want to socialise with the adults either. OP should just cut them all off, the parents and the children. The mum seems to enjoy the spectacle of her daughter being really mean and abusive to your kids. That's not normal behaviour.

When you tell the woman who’s child is as manipulative and fucked up as her parents that this friendship isn’t working for you, you tell her straight you have only just found out about her husband’s affair and connected all the dots. You want nothing to do with it nor will you put up with her daughter bullying and false accusations. That all her anger should be directed at her husband as your family are innocent of any involvement and you and your family are taking a step back from all involved because you don’t appreciate being in the firing line.