How to say no to a friend’s daughter coming to my home?

[Janetwin]

My husband and I are good friends with a couple whose daughter (7) plays with my kids. This girl’s behaviour was always a bit difficult, willful, demanding, can be a bit mean with my kids. One day being super friendly and the next excluding one of them, locking them out of the room or the house and saying mean things. I put it down to kids though at times, when the mother comes to collect her, I’ll tell her what happened and the mother’s reaction tends to be:
“I think it’s great she feels so at home in your house”
“Well that’s what she wants”
“Oh we have bigger problems” (goes on to say the child is anxious or clinging, personally I don’t see that in the kid)
The child’s behaviour is getting increasingly worse, dangerous even. She locked one of my daughters out of the house in the freezing cold some months ago, said mean things and made her cry, told her she was stupid and no one likes her. When I told the mother about this she just said “this isn’t working for me” and then wouldn’t say another word. Like, literally, sat there silent. It was kinda awkward so I dropped it, assuming she would deal with the kid in her own way.
On one occasion recently, I caught her taking something that belonged to my daughter off her, and standing over my daughter smiling at her crying. I told the girl she was in the wrong but she just looked at me with a smirk and said “what are you going to do?” A few days later, we were out with the kids and the mother, my friend, and the child bent over double and started howling and gasping for breath. Like she had been sucker punched and saying over and over “jane hit me” (that’s not my real name but for the purpose of this post…). The mum rushed over and when I, shocked, said I didn’t touch her (both my daughters were standing beside me in shock), the mum just brushed it off with “it’s ok, sometimes she does this when she’s tired”.

I’m at the stage where I don’t want the child in my house but the parents are acting like nothing happened and, as they’re friends of ours, just keeping turning up at the door and expecting to leave the kid at ours “for play dates”. How do I approach this? We’re in a wider friends circle and I don’t think the kid behaves this way with our other friends children.

You don’t need a confrontation- just stop being available for play dates. Lots of ‘oh sorry, we are just on the way out’ or ‘we have a dr appointment/ dentist appt’ etc etc. It’s softer, allows you to do a slow fade, and not have to deal with a perceived social fall out. Say yes to a play date in two weeks time, and then cancel it because of an emergency… in the month it takes to organize the next play date she will be spending more times with others and the group will make its own mind up. It’s duplicitous but protects you and your family from the realities of a social fall out.
On the other side, if bad behaviour is being normalized by this social group (the affair) then you might be quite happy to extract yourself in a very clear cut way.

I tried the slow fade already. It didn’t work. They were persistent. The husband (not mine, hers) went on the full charm offensive. She demanded a conversation to know why I’m upset. Situation eventually went back to the status quo. I think the time for politieness is over.

This is spot on. ☝️💯👏

I’ve noticed that some of the posters on this thread are being quite harsh to the OP and saying she is too soft.
Yet at the same time, lots of posters are suggesting making up gentle excuses/lies to avoid this family, rather than confronting the situation with the truth. …so is it any wonder that so many of us women end up people- pleasing and trying to placate and avoid offence?!
Unfortunately it is common in British culture to be ultra polite and to avoid being direct. This pressure is especially put upon women.

I think what we should all take from this is that it’s alright to be honest and firm with our boundaries!

It would actually be useful for that messed up family (OP’s friend) to hear the truth. If they lose friends because of their daughter’s behaviour, maybe they will learn that they should take her bad behaviour more seriously!

She. A demand all she wants, you can just say “I’m busy with other things right now.”

You don’t have to let them dictate how you spend your free time, especially if they involves looking after their child who none of you like.

I dont understand how your "friends" will drop you after this kid accused you of punching her. I would make a fucking big deal of it to the mum and probably even report it to SS as how the fuck she knows what it feels like when someone is punching you?

The husband (not mine, hers) went on the full charm offensive. She demanded a conversation to know why I’m upset. Situation eventually went back to the status quo.

She demanded?
Okay, well next time she demands, then have a bloody list ready.
Falls outs of and made children upset on ABC
And told lies about XYZ.

Then say her old adage of "this isn't working for me" and be done with it.
@Janetwin

I think the time for politieness is over.

Ya think???

Exactly this. The situation doesn’t call for wishy washy excuses - the equivalent of kicking the can down the road. OP needs to take the bull by the horns and explain to her friend that her DD is a bully and a liar, and as such is not just a threat to her children but to OP and her DH too. DD accused OP of hitting her. What would OP have done if there were not people around to prove that that didn’t happen ? What happens if that’s the case next time ? What happens if this child accuses DH of the same, or worse. If mum isn’t prepared to set boundaries for her child then OP needs to set them for her family and steer well clear of them all.

Like, use your mouth and say "your child accused me of hurting her and acted in a scary believable way to pretend this actually happened, this is fucked up, I'm not being around this shit as its weird and dangerous for me and my kids. Sort your kid out and come back when she stops being a liability".

I wonder what made this little girl to act like this.

I think when she said "this isn't working for me" that was a good opportunity to say "I'm not sure it's working for my children to keep having X round to play". But definitely since she accused you of hitting her I think it's time to draw a line.

Also, "this isn't working for me" - "well good, fuck off then"

The affair is irrelevant, the issue here is the child. She’s very young and clearly has significant issues, likely due to her home life. Who knows.

you need to end your friendship as you can’t exc the kid and keep the parents. So you will just need to say we are finding her behaviour a little difficult, as much as she’s a lovely child, so need space for a while, this is about our ability to cope not your child and leave it there, no blood on the table, she won’t bad mouth you, you’re out of it,

of course you can tell her straight, look your child’s behaviour is unacceptable so we need to call a halt to things, or all out lie, and say we want to spend time as a family as such, we won’t be socialising again for awhile, don’t contact us, we will contact you,

id go first option, simply as she knows about her kids behaviour, she is not going to fix it, in fact its likely her and her husband are causing it, and there will be a fuck ton of drama if you’re honest and I can’t be arsed with drama,

Yep. Pretty much this if OP actually wants things to change.

I think the time for politieness is over.

Yes OP, it is long over.
so what’s your plan ?

If it has been tried and didnt work. Then be direct and call time on it all.

Be blunt

"no thank you, the kids don't want any more play dates. They don't have fun anymore"

Obviously, I'm suggesting a worst case scenario, but it could happen.
You'd probably have to move house, change the children's schools etc.

A child made a false accusation about someone I know. He never got over it and took his own life.

Yep, or perhaps a little more socially acceptable ‘that’s good because it’s not working for me either’. While holding open the front door 🤣

Agree. It was the first thing in OP’s post that hit me as a red flag above all the other behaviour. OP was lucky mum was there when it happened, which might not be the case next time. And yes, l agree, mud sticks.

All of the above!
After her allegations I would never let that child in the house without her parent there again. I think you've posted about this child's behaviour before?

I would also be very very cautious of saying anything like "she accused me of abuse".. because a CF will take that script and run with it.. "She said my child accused her of abuse and now she's dumped us - (subtext - I've no idea why poor victim me, all I wanted was endless free childcare for my difficult child but its odd that she should mention abuse isn't it ")

It is pointless trying to honestly explain your reasons to this woman in order to be nice. She is a cf.. and her child is a cf. She hasn't listened to you, dismissed it every time you raise it.

Maybe try soft diplomacy as a first step - a firm fade out and see if that works out. No excuses because, speaking from hard learnt experience here, a CF will almost always work on a solution to any excuse you give.The best squasher is "Why?" , "because I just don't want to today."

I think you've tried hard to discuss it and she just railroads you. Situations like this build up over time until they become unsustainable, so don't blame yourself but you do have to prepare to be a lot firmer, even if it feels rude or blunt. She's actually quite blunt with you isn't she? And very good at shutting down conversations when she wants to.. so she's the one setting the tone.

Stay firm. She already knows a heck of a lot about your routine and schedule so this will be difficult, but you need to really limit the information about what your plans are from now on. She will push back, make you feel like you are being nasty or unkind... but YOU are NOT the person who is being nasty or unkind. Give yourself permission to say no.

You've mentioned you're concerned about how this will affect the friendship group, but I think that's because you are concerned about what CF might say about you if you say no to her. Actually that's a red flag that you feel a bit threatened by her. She's not a friend and she's not treating you like one. You need to practice the Gallic Shrug. Try to keep it very low key, don't discuss it unless its with someone you really trust.

I feel sorry for this child in a way because I don't think the mum does her DD any favours by not dealing with these issues. But I feel even more sorry for you, and even more than that for your poor DD, keep her booked up and busy with people who treat her well instead.
I'm sure you can do this, its uncomfortable, but its reached a point where its necessary. Just remind yourself about dangerous actions, taking your child's things and locking her out of her own house in freezing cold, every time you need to stiffen your resolve.

This sounds like the girl in "The exorcist" part IV. It's very worrying her mum is not addressing her girls anti-social behaviour. For your own childrens safety you can't have this girl around.

This.

The child made a malevolent accusation.

@Janetwin can’t risk exposing her family to any more of this behaviour.

@Janetwinis there a particular time and day that they usually turn up and is there a group WhatsApp group between all of you and your other DFrienda?

I’m just wondering if say they always turn up between 10 and 12 on a Saturday your DC could take up Hockey or Swimming at this time?

If there is a Whatsapp group you could always post about having the lurgy for a couple of weekends.

It does, and I'd not be happy to have my child around anyone who had ever had an allegation like that made against them. Even if I knew they were innocent there would be a tiny grain of doubt there.