Should we skip a family holiday because my nephew hurts my children?

[KidPlantMum]

Hello, I'd like your thoughts please. My nephew (9) likes to play with my children (similar age) but often ends up hurting them. That has happened a few years now but hes getting bigger and the hurt is dangerous now. The most severe incidents have been attempted drowning in the pool on holiday. My children don't want to be alone with him any more and of course I honour that and want to protect them so I supervise all playtime. But sometimes the nephew is sneaky with his behaviour and I see the hurt just afterwards. He is aware that I watch and sometimes says 'come over here where your mum can't see us.'

His parents do not address the behaviour. They behave as if my account of what happened or my children's account isn't true/important and there are no consequences or sitting down with him to discuss his behaviour. They simply remove him and find something else to do, but that hasn't been effective. Other members of the family say he's always looking forward to seeing my kids, but I won't have them as his guinea pigs for playdates.

We have a family holiday coming up again and my children don't want to go. I want to keep them away and keep them safe so do not want to attend but my husband disagrees because he doesn't want to let down family.

Your advice please. Is there anything I can do to make family time safe? l can't think of what else to do but supervise but that has not been good enough. If we don't go on the holiday, how do I explain that to family?

Thank you

Are you able to stay in separate accommodation and just meet for an evening meal? Where yiu can supervise your dc closely?
If not I would speak to the organisers and explain your dc don’t feel safe (give specific examples) and you won’t be going although if the behaviour is addressed and sustained you would consider it again in the future. Make it clear you can’t go if your dc feel unsafe.

No way I would go.

Everyone is unanimous in saying don't go, and it looks like the OP isn't coming back.

That's quite disturbing on several levels. At 9 years old your nephew should definitely know better, but the fact that his parents won't address it is weird. It's easy to assume lazy parenting but I wonder if there's more to it, I wonder if they're scared of him, if he melts down in private and gets violent with them, who knows?
In answer to your question though, I think you already know the answer. Obviously you can't put your children in an unsafe situation to avoid hurting someone else's feelings. You just need to be honest and tell them your kids are frightened of their son and don't want to go. They might not like it but it might be the wake up call they need.

I'm here and reading people's advice on how to say we're not going. Going nuclear isn't an option so I have to find a way to say it honestly and carefully. My children always come first. Thank you for your replies.

Yes I got psychopath vibes from this too, quite disturbing

It’s not going nuclear to say we are not coming this year , and when they ask why say your children haven’t enjoyed it recently . If they push it then tell them their child plays too rough despite their speaking to him .

Is DH on the same page as you now? It will make it so much easier for you if he is.

Good luck.

TBH, it can't be that difficult to put your children's safety before the hurt feelings of the rest of the family. This is a hill that I, and it seems that everyone else, would die on.

Are the grandparents really that oblivious to your nephews psychopathic behaviour?

Be honest and say you don’t want to come given nephews behaviour in the past upsetting your kids. Don’t send it in the group chat but maybe get your husband to have a chat with his sibling and explain the situation.

Equally I would have reprimanded my nephew there and then regardless of what parents said. I would do the same if I seen my kids hurting my nephews 🤷🏼‍♀️

What a little psycho.
Kids don’t want to go and I wouldn’t want to take them.
dont.

I agree you can’t go nuclear.

Instead, I’d prob have a quiet word with the grandparents and explain that while you’d normally love to come, you find the ‘energy levels’ of your nephew (this is the tactful way to say bad behaviour!) very stressful to
manage on a family holiday and that you don’t want to ruin the vibe with arguments. You could suggest you’ll come to visit them a different time?

If they try to dismiss or insist, explain gently that you are truly worried and have had sleepless nights, so can only come if there’s some way that the kids don’t play together but you haven’t yet been able to think of a way to make it work. Say that the boy ‘doesn’t know his own strength’ (again, this is polite code for him being a brute) and that your fear is that ‘an accident’ will happen where someone (ie your child) will end up getting badly hurt and it will be so upsetting to the whole family including the boy and his parents. This way, you’re specifically saying you’re trying to avoid drama, not make drama.

If they try to paint you as over-anxious, so be it :- don’t take offence, just agree and ‘admit’ that that maybe your fears are misplaced but you can’t get rid of the anxiety no matter how hard you try.

In this way, you are being truthful but tactful.
They probably haven’t thought about how stressful it is for you to constantly police the interactions or how devastating it would be if someone was badly hurt by this boy.

If you cannot get adequate comfort on your children’s safety, don’t go. Think about what you would regret more: missing the holiday or being persuaded to go and your child ends up hurt or traumatised.

@KidPlantMumdo you have a good relationship with DH’s parents? I think I would sound it out with them first. I bet they have noticed also. I have a similar thing but with a much younger child, and the grandparents had noticed and when I raised it, they agreed, also having noticed the rubbish gentle (completely permissive) parenting and been frustrated with it. Maybe they could speak to the parents and raise it with them gently. Then they’ll be prepped a bit for when your husband hopefully does.

I do think you just need to be factual. And maybe plan a separate trip with his parents so your kids don’t miss out on that family time. But yeah no one is going to enjoy that holiday as it is - you and your husband like hawks and the children scared and not wanting to be there. I think that’s what you need to say to the parents and the grandparents

And it’s not going nuclear to say your kids are scared and really don’t want to go. In fact, I think this should be said. Maybe it’ll make everyone open up their eyes to it. It’s factual. I don’t know any other kids turning down a holiday, so this will probably make it very clear to the wider family how bad it has got, that the kids are too scared even to go and won’t find it enjoyable

We had friends with a son like this, he was about 9 when we had a day out and his behaviour included opening the front door and encouraging my then toddler DCs to go outside, and holding a pointed metal rod he'd found and running towards them. He explained that he wasn't to blame as he merely opened the door, and that all he was doing was running with a stick, so not his fault if the toddlers were in his way. There was other stuff like he'd also kicked his mum in the stomach when she was heavily pregnant. Anyway, he's an adult now diagnosed with a personality disorder. Who knew.

I think you be tactful and say to grandparents that you won’t be joining them on a big family holiday. If they press for why say nephew is boisterous and your children have been hurt and don’t want to come. It’s easier all round if you skip this one.
If they try and argue just say you don’t want to discuss further.
I think it’s a conversation to have discreetly in person with the grandparents.
The nuclear option would be saying on family group chat he’s a violent psycho.

Imagine your kids when they are grown

'Mum why did you make us spend time with someone that abused us repeatedly. We asked for help and no one did a thing. Why did no one stop it?'

Ive very recently had a playdate where one of my relatives children started picking on my 3 year old, making her cry for laughs. They will not be playing together again and I don't give a shiny shit who I upset by saying that

You don't have to go nuclear. Make a list of all the issues your children have had with their cousin. Every single incident no matter how small or insignificant it may seem. It all helps to build a picture. Your children's fear of their cousin to the extent they don't want to go on holiday is significant.
All the adults need to take responsibility for the current situation. Their reluctance to recognise there are serious problems with the child's behaviour especially when he attempted to drown your children. How in the hell did they try to excuse that and what did your husband, your childrens father do or say??? Your children or one of them could be dead and yet there are adults ignoring it. It really does defy belief.
Actually, maybe you do have to go nuclear. I think the time for ignoring or excusing his behaviour is well over. It sounds as if for years your children's level of fear has been escalating to the point they are openly telling you they are afraid and don't want to go on this holiday. What kind of holiday will it be with your children terrified, you on constant high alert while everyone else ignores the problem.
Protect your children. If anything happened to them you will all be culpable and responsible. It is good that you were willing to put it in writing and are listening.
You know it is wrong but what is holding you back? Your husband? His family?
I feel there is something else lurking in the shadows.
Please protect your children and yourself. Do not be bullied. There is lots of help here for you. Take care and deal with this sooner rather than later.

Where does your DH stand in all this?!

does this boy have any friends? Is he like this in school? It sounds incredibly worrying.

I bet his parents would address it if the tables were turned !

I definitely would not go and keep away from him going forward.

I would be upfront to all and say it how it is not pussy foot around the dangerous behaviour.

If it means upsetting people so be it. Say your concern is your kids safety not their feelings end of.

Don't on holiday with them. Just don't. Just say your children want a separate holidays going forwards.

You absolutely can and should go nuclear. The little rat is a risk to your kids' lives.

It is a bit difficult to say exactly how to tell them when we don't know your family dynamics and why going nuclear isn't an option
If you tell us why keeping the peace with these people is necessary then people will have more to work with

If you can get your husband to say No as a united front with clear boundaries.

Absolutely do not go! Your children are not safe and keeping them safe is your number one job as a parent. This child is a BULLY.

I imagine he ruins any holidays or trips when they are together and they don't enjoy spending time any real with him. He might start out fun and then purposely take things too far and play mean tricks on them. My sister used to do this to me and my friends. She was 6 years older and bullied us this way.

Given that his parents don't even try to stop him, do your children a favour and stay away. Of course the child looks forward to seeing yours, he is a cruel and sadistic boy who enjoys bullying his weaker cousins, and nobody stops him!

Tell your family the reason, this child bullies, endangers and injures yours and as a family you have decided you don't want to be subjected to that any more. It sounds like they are lazy and permissive, so they probably won't like that, but you owe it to YOUR children, so suck it up and take the rap for them. They will thank you in years to come!