Should we skip a family holiday because my nephew hurts my children?

[KidPlantMum]

Hello, I'd like your thoughts please. My nephew (9) likes to play with my children (similar age) but often ends up hurting them. That has happened a few years now but hes getting bigger and the hurt is dangerous now. The most severe incidents have been attempted drowning in the pool on holiday. My children don't want to be alone with him any more and of course I honour that and want to protect them so I supervise all playtime. But sometimes the nephew is sneaky with his behaviour and I see the hurt just afterwards. He is aware that I watch and sometimes says 'come over here where your mum can't see us.'

His parents do not address the behaviour. They behave as if my account of what happened or my children's account isn't true/important and there are no consequences or sitting down with him to discuss his behaviour. They simply remove him and find something else to do, but that hasn't been effective. Other members of the family say he's always looking forward to seeing my kids, but I won't have them as his guinea pigs for playdates.

We have a family holiday coming up again and my children don't want to go. I want to keep them away and keep them safe so do not want to attend but my husband disagrees because he doesn't want to let down family.

Your advice please. Is there anything I can do to make family time safe? l can't think of what else to do but supervise but that has not been good enough. If we don't go on the holiday, how do I explain that to family?

Thank you

@KidPlantMum YANBU at all. Attempted drowning is a hard stop. That’s not “rough play”, that’s a safeguarding incident. Once a child has tried to drown another, the conversation about “supervision” is over - you simply don’t put your kids in that situation again.

Your nephew is deliberately hurting your children and actively trying to evade adult supervision (“come over here where your mum can’t see us”). That’s calculated, not accidental. His parents are minimising it, which means nothing will change. You cannot “supervise harder” when the child is bigger, stronger, sneaky, and not being parented appropriately.

Your DH needs to get a grip. Family holidays are optional. Your children’s safety is not. Letting down family is mildly awkward; letting down your children is catastrophic. I would be having firm words with him on why he is safeguarding his family happiness with your childrens safety?

This is not negotiable. Your kids have told you they don’t feel safe, that’s all you need to know.

A simple, factual explanation is enough, which should come from your husband: “We’re not coming. The children don’t feel safe around Nephew after several serious incidents, including the pool. We’re not putting them in that position again because we do not want to sacrifice our childrens safety and family enjoyment by having to be constantly vigilant due to nephews behaviour and praying nothing undue happens .”

You don’t need to justify it further. Protect your children and let the adults manage their own disappointment.

I wouldn’t go - you are not obligated to go on family holidays. Whose birthday is it? Is there not a cheaper one day celebration that can be had?

I would be putting a stop to all family get togethers until your nephews disturbing behavior has been addressed and dealt with appropriately by his parents. Attempting to drown your child? He's bullying your children and he knows what he's doing and doesn't care because he's being free reign to carry on. What happens when he becomes an adult? Your children need to be protected here.

Why don’t you like LTB on threads. What if someone is an abusive arsehole? What if they have got them into debt on numerous occasions because of a gambling problem which they refuse to get treatment for? What if they leave the OP to do all the childcare and carry the domestic load while working full time so they can stay home gaming? What if they’re a serial cheater?

I don’t get this thing on here that it’s some kind of virtue signalling to say you never say LTB. I genuinely haven’t seen it bandied about lightly and I’ve been on here for years.

But I wholly agree with your other points.

There would be no way I'd be going on holiday with them. Tell your dh he can go by himself but you and the fc are staying at home. That's no holiday for your dc if they'll be living in fear of their cousin and his actions.

I wouldn't go. It won't be pleasant or relaxing if you're constantly having to try and keep your kids safe and with the rest of the family minimising or gas-lighting you over his behaviour - fuck that! I would be honest and say that you can't relax when 'D'N if liable to try and drown your kids in the sodding pool.

If you DH wants to go, then tell him he's welcome to, but you and the kids will be taking a pass and doing something else.

Absolutely don't go, and keep your kids away from him in future, otherwise he WILL hurt them badly one day and you and their father will have let them down.
If his parents get huffy, fine, it's possible to live with that.

Your kids come first - you are 100% right to protect them.

Tell them you're not going and be honest. Your DC don't want to go because little bollox keeps hurting them and trying to drown them in the pool! He sounds evil tbh OP.

Tell DH he can go without you all if he really wants to go.

Are you scared of saying no to your husband? Maybe he's not too dissimilar to your nephew if you are.

Hi, so I have several qualifications in Counselling and Children/Young People’s Mental Health.

Firstly, did you say “drowning” of other children?
I mean, I’m no behavioural expert but this sounds extremely dangerous and terrifying.

Absolutely do not go anywhere with him, don’t leave your children or pets alone with him, and I would suggest addressing this with his parents for good measure, if you are able to.

It’s also very important to acknowledge that children learn a lot from their upbringing, parentage and environment, so I would also be seriously concerned about what’s going on at home for your nephew, for him to be doing things like that. The fact he also seemingly is able to acknowledge that his behaviour is very wrong by way of saying “Let’s go somewhere where your mum can’t see us” is arguably the worst thing about this and I would be very concerned about the welfare of not only your nephew, but for other children and animals around him 😧

So the psychopath kid is from your in laws side? Your dh can go but you tell them the real reason and say you and kids won’t join.

He sounds like a future murderer. This might seem an extreme thing to say but attempted drowning and telling them to go places where you can’t see them? This sounds like a beginning of a documentary. Don’t go on any holiday with him ever again and don’t let him near your children. Ever. Seriously chilling.

Ok, so your H can’t rock the boat - for whatever reason - but fundamentally agrees that this isn’t right.

he’s only saying that the supervision is enough because- the n his position- he has to.

so YOU have to tell him that you’re going to take the hit/flak on this and that you’re going to say that after the intentional drowning attempt and the repeated attempts to get your kids out of your view so they can be hurt again - without consequence- that the kids won’t be attending any event for the foreseeable future.

in the meantime love, it really might be worth getting them some kind of self defence training

fundamentally this is a failure by the kids parents to contain this situation. It does sound extreme and that there is a REAL danger to your kids. I understand that no parent wants to admit that their child has severe issues, and that’s the journey that they must make without your suggestion, but your kids are not going to be hurt again.

my DS is now 20, I was (still am) Mumma Bear as far as he’s concerned, but he’s 6’2” and a 90kg boxing monster now, if I had been in this situation with him and any other kid, I’d have gone ballistic.

my own mother hurt him deliberately once, that was the last time he went to her house.

my dad was mean to him (as he was to me my whole life)

haven’t seen him in years either.

we’ve got one job. To protect our kids. You have that role and you have to do it.

all the hand wringing in the world with “oh he must have some condition or whatever” is irrelevant

what if nephew kills one or other of the kids? Then what? What good is a fucking diagnosis.

sorry, I’ve wittered on, tell H how it is and that you will assume all responsibility for the fallout. All he has to do is stand behind you and back you up.

firm no.

Would you go a holiday with someone who has previously tried drowning or hurting you? Who plots to get you alone so it couldn’t be seen? Absoloutely not.

My children are terrified of being assaulted, but I was thinking maybe I'd let them be assaulted so as not to offend my husband, who cares more about his extended family than his children's safety.

Updated version.

Absolutely don't go. Your first responsibility as a parent is to keep your children safe. Let the family know why you won't be going because they are harming this boy by not addressing his behaviour.

@Maximusdecimus

The sexual part you've written here is spot on actually. It sounds like this child is ominously motivated by hurting and causing harm to others, this cannot be ignored and it's something that's frequently observed about psychopaths/murderers/deviants etc, they tend to "get off" on causing harm to others, be it another child, an animal, an insect, whatever.
I would be seriously worried about what's going on with OP's nephew at home.

I’ve just reread the OP. It is quite all right to say “Oh, we won’t be joining you this year. We are going to Armenia / Italy / Peru instead. I hope you all have a great time!”.

Expecting the wider family to always holiday together is a bit weird.

I’d be more worried about your husbands response.

His children’s safety should come before potential feelings of awkwardness about not going.

I’d address this with him first. If you are the one to bring it up to his family you will be scapegoated.

I'd be staying far, far, away from these people for the rest of my life and wouldn't even notice them scapegoating me.

Anybody who's turning a blind eye to the nephew's behaviour is either involved in something really dodgy or is simply unfit to spend any time around children, and should be avoided anyway.

At first, I thought you meant that the dc were all rough-housing and your dc came off a little worse. But the comment about moving away so that you can not see is deeply worrying.

Not a chance would I be going on this holiday with my dc. And I would tell the family why. Factually and calmly. It’s then up to them how they react / respond.

Someone's going to be upset whatever you do, so you get to choose who it is. You can go and your DC will be upset and probably always having to watch out for their cousin so not enjoy or even look forward to going or you decline the holiday summonds* *offer and upset your in-laws.

Your DH can always go on his own if he's that bothered about upsetting his family, especially when that family are more than happy to sit back and watch their DC bully his own.

Ffs OP.

HE IS A PSYCHO WHO TRIED TO DROWN YOUR CHILDREN! HE IS DANGEROUS!

Your children need you to protect them, you should never ever see this boy ever again.

When I started reading your OP I thought it was going to be the odd punch or kick. But attempted drowning? And luring them out of sight to hurt them? There isn’t a chance in hell I’d be going on holiday with them and your DH is minimising massively.

Really important to show your children that you can and will protect them from harm and that they shouldn’t tolerate it from anyone. Tell your DH that forcing them to go is condoning nephew’s abuse and letting your children down.

“(Nephew) previously tried to drown my children. Sorry we won’t be going”

I would not even contemplate in this situation. If children were willing and I was confident I could supervise appropriately it would be different