Should we skip a family holiday because my nephew hurts my children?

[KidPlantMum]

Hello, I'd like your thoughts please. My nephew (9) likes to play with my children (similar age) but often ends up hurting them. That has happened a few years now but hes getting bigger and the hurt is dangerous now. The most severe incidents have been attempted drowning in the pool on holiday. My children don't want to be alone with him any more and of course I honour that and want to protect them so I supervise all playtime. But sometimes the nephew is sneaky with his behaviour and I see the hurt just afterwards. He is aware that I watch and sometimes says 'come over here where your mum can't see us.'

His parents do not address the behaviour. They behave as if my account of what happened or my children's account isn't true/important and there are no consequences or sitting down with him to discuss his behaviour. They simply remove him and find something else to do, but that hasn't been effective. Other members of the family say he's always looking forward to seeing my kids, but I won't have them as his guinea pigs for playdates.

We have a family holiday coming up again and my children don't want to go. I want to keep them away and keep them safe so do not want to attend but my husband disagrees because he doesn't want to let down family.

Your advice please. Is there anything I can do to make family time safe? l can't think of what else to do but supervise but that has not been good enough. If we don't go on the holiday, how do I explain that to family?

Thank you

There is absolutely no fucking way I'd have my children ANYWHERE near that kid.

No thank you, we won't be going because your kid is a fucking psycho. End of conversation.

Get your DH to man up and tell them to control their kid or the holiday's off!

If husband is minimising and turning blind eye then definitely worth a conversation about how this affect dc longer term. Eg will they grow up and tolerate abusive partners to keep the peace etc, such a wrong message to give your children. When he’s wondering why your 16 yr old daughter is putting up with a lad treating her like crap you will remind him of this conversation.

No, I think OP is past that. Her H can 'tell' them all he wants, the risk remains. The only way to manage the risk posed by the nephew is to cut off contact with him.

Some children are this way. There was a boy in DD’s class at primary school who was evil. He was sneaky and knew full well what he was doing. His mum was absolutely oblivious. I used to joke he’d grow up to be a serial killer. He’s now early 20s and drug dealing.

Explain exactly as you did here. This isn't normal behaviour and it isn't your job to supervise a budding sociopath. Do not force your children to go or they will hate you later in life. Tried to drown your kids? And your partner is still pushing it? Bin him off as well. Unless you're exaggerating any of this behaviour.

Sounds like there’s something not right with him!

No way would I be going and your H needs to get his head out of his arse and put his children first.

Sorry but i would sort your nephew out myself if i saw him continuously hurting my kids i wouldn't faff around with telling parents i would deal with it and if necessary scare the ever loving shite out of him! Stop pussyfooting around him and take charge

You don't want to go and neither do your children so I guess your DH is out voted..... I wouldn't put my kids in danger and spend a "holiday" feeling stressed over this

Do not subject your poor children to this just because this child is family. Their safety should be paramount. Just no

@KidPlantMum

Tell them you're not going . Your kids are afraid of Psycho Nephew and don't want to go and you want a relaxing holiday, not a stressful one spent micromanaging his dangerous behaviour.

And tell your husband to grow a spine and back you up. Incidentally, what is he doing while you're doing all the supervising?

We had something similar in our family on DH side.

Our nephew is autistic and was very aggressive, we supervised them but they used to go visit with MIL or SIL who supervised them less and often dismissed his behaviour.

Our DDs said he frightened them and we'd had to intervene a few times.

As soon as they told us DH reduced contact to only brief with us strongly supervising and banned MIL/SIL from taking DDs to visit.

That is what a loving father who wants to protect his children does, it can be hard with families especially if they have poor boundaries, which by the sound of it they do. But your DH needs to step up for his children.

It did help us that our Nephew's parents where supportive of us but MIL & SIL kept trying to take all the cousins out together and ignore our wishes so DH had to put strong rules in place including not trusting them with taking DD's out without him.

If you literally mean that a child could have drowned because of your nephew's behaviour of course you must keep your children away from him in future. Maybe things weren't literally that bad, but if your children consistently dislike the boy's company and don't want to see him, that in itself is a good reason for cancelling the holiday.

It certainly sounds as if there is something desperately wrong with this lad, and he needs help before completely set in his ways - not that your children should be offered up as sacrificial lambs by any means!
If not checked, terrible consequences are what lie ahead, and you are absolutely right to keep your own children safe. In the meantime, his parents are in deep denial; they cannot be oblivious, whatever they say.
So, sooner or later, there will come a crunch; it might be a schoolmate, or a relative, but if unchecked it will escalate until the crisis is unavoidable.
If your refusal to go along with the status quo is what brings about the harsh reality check, so be it, but in the long term it is necessary for all concerned.

Red toothbrush was responding to me and seemed to feel that an adult considering how several children's needs can be managed might be doing something wrong and not safeguarding. So I couldn't tell what the no related to.
I was pointing out many parents do this kind of navigating between their own children, and also extended families work together on these issues sometimes. A challenged child will sometimes have a gran, or a nan, or an uncle who can do additional support - spend time and it reduces risk. And that's how the family works. My mother used to spend hours with my nephew just listening.

I realise the OPs not reflecting she wants that kind of shared set up on holiday and that's her choice.
I'm just saying that the solution for some children is more adult relationship not less and that's what some families do. But yes the other kids have to be safe and he needs close supervision and that has to come mainly from parents. .

If this was a kid at school or Beavers or something, would he still think supervision was enough?

Honestly? It sounds as though you will be dreading this holiday and will be on edge the whole time when you’re on it. Don’t waste your annual leave on something you hate - arrange to do something else.

Your DH is being completely unreasonable.

IMO a holiday is about spending quality time together in a fun relaxed environment. Closely supervising your children to protect them from their cousin is neither fun nor relaxing!

Also what sort of message is it sending your children? That they should put up with this b/c it’s family?

This is a hill I’d be prepared to die on. Go somewhere nice without your nephew or his idiot “parents”.

You realise this kid could actually kill someone? I would not be risking it. I don't give a flying fuck who gets offended. It only takes a few seconds of him holding one of your kids' heads underwater for the unthinkable to happen.

He is aware that I watch and sometimes says 'come over here where your mum can't see us.'

My God, this kid needs urgent help. This is creepy as hell.

Why do you have to holiday all together, anyway?

Supervision may be enough to keep them safe but is not enough the keep them feeling safe. They don't feel safe. They're telling their parents that. Their parents (both of them) need to show that they have their back. "I'm sorry we won't be coming as DC dont feel safe around their cousin" should do it.

If children are staying they want to skip a holiday, then it's obviously pretty traumatic for them to be around your nephew. Appreciate it's hard for you especially as it's in laws but as I'm sure you will, you need to put your kids physical and emotional safety first. Don't go.

If supervision is enough then why do you continue to have these incidents.

I actually think that these children need a taste of their own medicine. Wonder if you had held his head under water for a 5 or 6 seconds and then kept ducking him.

The problem is there is no one to say no to him. No ind is giving him boundaries and consequences and he will continue to push and push until his parents say no.

Until he gets clear and decisive consequences then in his mind what he is doing is perfectly acceptable

I presume if anyone did to him what he has done to your children then his parents would be up in arms and screaming at them/calling the police.

(No wonder this boy is so looking forward to the holiday and “playing” with your children

Supervision cannot be 100%. And when it goes wrong it's too late.

I had to be honest with my own dsis at one point when my DC didn't want my nephew staying with us one Easter weekend as he had recently bitten my DS plus used to punch him often/be very physical and annoying. He's older now (9) and better behaved (he has SEN) but my DC refused to go on family holidays with him in the past and I also didn't want to as he was such hard work (plus a v big age gap with my DC - mine are much older). It's a tricky situation to navigate. But I listened to my DC as their opinions matter.

I've known two kids just like this (both now adults)

One will spend the rest of his life in prison for murder (he really is a danger to the public)

The other was the ds of my friend and 3 months younger than my ds

He was a sly child who would do something nasty but because he was the 'first' in his family (first child,grandchild,nephew etc) blonde haired and a lovely smile he got away with a lot (he got away with everything at home and a lot at school)

He'd batter kids at school and swear it wasn't him (with his family backing him up 'my son wouldn't do that!') and the adults/teachers seemed to believe him (against the word of other kids)

His mother was my ride or die friend but I cooled the friendship when he broke my ds's nose and tore his prized red nose (comic relief) to bits

Still holding the pieces of ds's red nose,blood everywhere from ds's actual nose,the little git STILL got away with it,even though his mother and I both saw him do it

The other mothers stood by her until he battered their kids (with her telling him he's 'a good boy') and they all moved away from her (which she couldn't understand why)

He put his sisters and female cousin in hospital (they saw him do it each time) and STILL they couldn't see what a nasty little fucker they where raising (they lied to the police too)

He got expelled from two schools and is now 26

He spends his days spending his families money,smoking weed and battering his boyfriend

I will see his name in the paper one day but his family just won't accept it

He's scary intelligent but a nasty bastard

Hell would have frozen over before I agreed to go on holiday with my child's bully