How to handle a 12-year-old refusing to accept a ‘NO’?

[YellowMellow99]

I’m looking for some advice please. TIA for your help and please be kind. 🙏🏼
Our 12.5 year old DD latched on to the idea of going to an activity this summer that DH (her father) and I deemed age inappropriate. We explained this to her and said no. We said she can choose another activity.
She’s completely refusing to take no for an answer and has been really upset, angry, uncooperative and argumentative.
It’s tempting to give in to her but that’s what DH used to do and look where that got us!
DD is very smart and (like any tween/teen her age) can be quite manipulative to get her way. She refuses to help with anything, unpack her things (we just moved house a month ago), she’s also not looking after her pets. She says she’d do more if we take her to this event but we already said no and explained why. DH and I have a united front. DD is generally lazy as DH used to just do stuff for her and she soon learned that she should ‘just enjoy being a child’. DH came to realise that this was not a good idea and we are trying to change things and get DD take on more responsibilities (at least tidy up after herself and look after some of her pets) but she’s just very demanding, doesn’t do things unless she gets something out of it, and she can be uncooperative and difficult.
I think DH doing everything for her made her quite spoiled and she’s our only child so that probably didn’t help either.
I’m giving all this as a background information.
She said she’ll be miserable and upset while summer and not talk to us, unless we take her to the event.
I had physically and emotionally abusive parents and I always wanted to do my best for my child. She knows I’m always here and she can talk to me any time. DH and I both love her so much.
I’m looking for advice on how to deal with this and how to help her through it. We already explained to her why we said no, she’s not accepting, and we also explained it to her that in life sometimes you just don’t get what you want and you need to be okay with that and that’s what resilience is. I think she might be influenced by others too. She is not allowed on SM and only has WhatsApp for the last month or so.
Thank you!

I would ignore her mentioning the event anymore tbh, tell her straight the next time she brings it up "we have told you our decision and explained the reasons why we have made this decision, I will not be discussing it again" then just ignore every mentioning of it. If she comes off with I'll be miserable/stay in my room etc just repeat "thats your choice to make" and again don't engage. She will hopefully sooner rather than later realise that things have changed and you and DH will not be giving in, once she finally realises you are serious and begins to take you seriously you need to tackle her laziness regarding her pets, unpacking, chores etc. If she doesn't unpack then when she needs something thats packed away it's tough, she wants it? Well go unpack then. Wants to wear a certain outfit but hasn't bothered to put it in the laundry basket/washing machine (wherever you've set the expectation) well then I guess you are either wearing it dirty or wearing something else.
This right now is the hardest bit as previously you/DH have given in to her, stay strong now and life will get easier in the future as she realises you mean what you say

What. Is. The. Activity?

I suspect this is your underlying problem.
You have a phone addicted pre teen.
Act now. Act determinedly. Get her off it completely for a full month. She will start to see her pets again, interact better, be less of an entitled brat.
Don’t do an odd day here or there. Just go cold turkey.
There is lots of evidence that teenagers shouldn’t have phones at all. Certainly not ones they are on all the time.

I suggest reading The Anxious Generation for you and absolutely no screen time (phone or tv) until she has done all her chores and some exercise each day. That’s what we do with my 12 year old and she just knows not to even bother asking for screen time until she has done what she is meant to do. We had to put a smart plug on the tv so we can switch it on and off with our phones but otherwise it has gone well.

@YellowMellow99 has already said it is Adult themed. Why are you demanding she tells you anything more? The child is not an adult, that's all that matters.

@YellowMellow99 If you suspect ADHD then leaving your child unsupervised in her room with a phone is the worst decision. Take it away. Restrict it's use.

ADHD is not a excuse for her behaviour. She shouts, you shout back. You are being controlled by a pre teen. The rabbits need rehomed and so does the poor hamster. No more pets for her until she is an adult. Stick to it. 8 year olds look after hamsters and rabbits. She has proven she isn't mature enough for WhatsApp either. She's not even 13.

How can she go meet a friend if she's not leaving her room?

Why do I think the activity is Pride?

I’ve heard of that book!

May I ask, did your DD have a smart phone before?

DD thinks we are super strict (clearly not strict enough!) and I think she’d go nuts if we tried to do that!
I’d really like to know the practicalities of how you implemented this, I’d love to do this so much!

DD takes her phone to school. She has a 20-25 minute walk to school and back. I could drive her but we just moved recently and she says she enjoys the walk.

She gets in and she pretty much spends all her time on her phone (including doing her homework. She is generally good with doing her homework and she’s smart but struggles with maths so we do some extra maths - 1 hour/week so not a lot).

As I said, she doesn’t help with anything around the house, she says she’s too tired after school and after carrying her heavy school back (she takes everything and the kitchen sink but she won’t take anything out…) She goes to dance class 1x / week (I drive her, 40 mins each way and she’s on her phone all the way there and back saying she’s needs to unwind after social interaction) and self defence class 1x / week (it’s close by and mostly she bikes there). She does go out on bike rides when she feels like it.

Thank you for your help!

Tell her you all need a reset. From now on she needs to show her willingness to step up. She has to at least care for the pets and not go on about the activity. In turn, you will discuss and agree basic house rules about her minimum contributions and your clear consequences. Sell it as a plan for the household to get on better.

You mention she is getting plenty of phone/screen time. With our children they get their screen after they complete the task/s they have to do. It's very simple really. Down to small things like no screen until completely ready for school. Obviously they aren't going to do what you want them to if they don't really have to and can just get what they want regardless.
It's going to be hard because you have already instilled bad habits in her but it's important you start and don't give in. And no more pets, obviously.

I don’t agree with corporal punishment, neither does DH. I was hit as a child by my father on many occasions and it’s a horrible thing.

Ok, that’s your choice.

Stop getting her animals!

She sounds really spoilt and like she knows that she will be given anything she wants if she demands it long enough. So well done for sticking to your guns on this one. Do not back down, she thinks she’s the boss, that needs to change.

Thank you!

She’s only leaving her room to meet her friend apparently 🙄

I agree with what you say about the phone, but I don’t know how to go about this! She says her phone is her support. Chat GPT mainly. I had a look on her Chat GPT tonight and with some of it I’m not happy! But she does use it for mental health support. She had anxiety in year 5 and last school year (year 7). I think the ADHD doesn’t help and I agree that she shouldn’t have it unsupervised and about WhatsApp too, which we only agreed to recently.

The hard thing is to take things back now and how to do it. Cold turkey approach won’t work, according to her school’s CAMHS/BRIYM support, taking the phone away is the ultimate punishment because that’s how they communicate with their friends…
She does lose her phone when she is rude but I don’t know how to restrict/take away her phone when she had it since Christmas in year 6 (and she was one of the last ones to get a phone in her class…)

DH and I do look after the pets and give them food, water, affection and clean them, they are loved and looked after but we wanted DD to take part and learn to be responsible. Instead she just seems to be too involved in herself…

This sounds great! Please could you give me more details as to what her minimum contributions should be, and clear consequences? I’d really appreciate your input, this sounds like a great plan! Thank you!

@YellowMellow99 Wouldn't suggest cold turkey, but a limit of an hour a day to communicate with her friends, maybe two during holidays and it must be supervised. ChatGPT for mental health support is not healthy. There are proper sites if she needs support.

I assume she has her phone locked down at a certain time of night or are you allowing her to be on it at all times? Screens before sleep will also not help ADHD.

Only read your posts op not the full thread but I have no idea why you're letting her get away with this behaviour, adhd or no adhd!

Why on earth are you still permitting her to meet her friend and have her phone??

Where are the consequences for being so extraordinarily rude? Removing her phone for one day isn't enough.

What a spoiled brat.

Thank you, that’s really useful!
Yes, I agree there are bad habits unfortunately.
Can I ask what you’d suggest re her Kindle?
Her bedtime is 9pm. She often struggles to go to sleep (she used to be a great sleeper till she was about 9-10). She reads before bed but she insists the Kindle stays (she can’t do anything but read on it) because she says she sometimes wakes up during the night and reading a bit helps her to go back to sleep.
I’m concerned she is reading for too long at bedtime but have no way to know for sure.

And you let her go out to see her friend?

My daughter would absolutely not be going out if she behaved like that. If she wants to behave like a 5 year old, she will be treated like a 5 year old. Any time she mentioned the thing, there would be an immediate consequence.

She thinks she rules the roost, it’s time she learned she doesn’t.

This is so easily solved. Why are parents so afraid of a spoilt manipulative little brat Who isn't old enough to influence anybody's life and has no power at all in the household.

Don't look after the pets rehome them.

She says, I'll never speak to you again and will lock myself in my bedroom - say to her, thank god, I won't have to listen to your moaning anymore or have to look at your miserable frowning face.

Give her a shock - no one cares about her miserable little tantrums and it won't work.

You’re right!
And definitely no more pets!!

She’s 12. She doesn’t get to insist.

Please tell me you're not a parent.

Thank you, that’s helpful!

Her phone goes off at 7:45pm and it doesn’t come on till 7:45am. She has screen time and the phone has to stay in the kitchen overnight.
She’s been asking for longer time in the evening but we said no!