How to handle a 12-year-old refusing to accept a ‘NO’?

[YellowMellow99]

I’m looking for some advice please. TIA for your help and please be kind. 🙏🏼
Our 12.5 year old DD latched on to the idea of going to an activity this summer that DH (her father) and I deemed age inappropriate. We explained this to her and said no. We said she can choose another activity.
She’s completely refusing to take no for an answer and has been really upset, angry, uncooperative and argumentative.
It’s tempting to give in to her but that’s what DH used to do and look where that got us!
DD is very smart and (like any tween/teen her age) can be quite manipulative to get her way. She refuses to help with anything, unpack her things (we just moved house a month ago), she’s also not looking after her pets. She says she’d do more if we take her to this event but we already said no and explained why. DH and I have a united front. DD is generally lazy as DH used to just do stuff for her and she soon learned that she should ‘just enjoy being a child’. DH came to realise that this was not a good idea and we are trying to change things and get DD take on more responsibilities (at least tidy up after herself and look after some of her pets) but she’s just very demanding, doesn’t do things unless she gets something out of it, and she can be uncooperative and difficult.
I think DH doing everything for her made her quite spoiled and she’s our only child so that probably didn’t help either.
I’m giving all this as a background information.
She said she’ll be miserable and upset while summer and not talk to us, unless we take her to the event.
I had physically and emotionally abusive parents and I always wanted to do my best for my child. She knows I’m always here and she can talk to me any time. DH and I both love her so much.
I’m looking for advice on how to deal with this and how to help her through it. We already explained to her why we said no, she’s not accepting, and we also explained it to her that in life sometimes you just don’t get what you want and you need to be okay with that and that’s what resilience is. I think she might be influenced by others too. She is not allowed on SM and only has WhatsApp for the last month or so.
Thank you!

Don't second guess yourself. I think you have done everything right op, you have kept her safe from something you deem inappropriate, you have offered a suitable alternative and you have held your ground. Preteen/teen is a difficult age.

This is something that she will only learn from experience. Nobody is born as Pollyanna.

she just focuses on the negative and blames others. I don’t know what she’s like this, I always look for the good in things and so does DH.

But you are adults, and she is 12. It's completely developmentally normal for her to lash out and look for other people to blame when she is upset. It will take a lot of time and maturity for her to get to a point of being able to change her emotions. You might as well look at a 2 year old rolling around on the floor screaming and say "DH and I don't do this, I don't know where he gets it from?" I know that's a silly example, but it is genuinely partially developmental - metacognition, which is the executive function involved in being able to think about your feelings and reframe them so you can see them from a different angle, is one of the last executive functions to develop. It's an extremely mature thing to do and comes more in late teenhood/early adulthood.

Until this is well developed, the only real coping skill with emotions is either to externalise them, which is all the screaming/crying/complaining/gnashing of teeth as well as blaming others and making up wild excuses. Or just literally to have lots and lots and lots of repeated and varied experiences of moving through various emotions and coming to a calmer place and realising that nothing catastrophic happened (as a result of the emotion itself). There is also co-regulation, which you know about, and still has a place throughout life, although note that co-regulation is NOT "making someone feel better". It's more about being a calm and sturdy presence or a listening/understanding ear, without necessarily trying to fix or solve or make better.

And there is internalisation, which is bottling things up/funneling it into anxiety, low self esteem, or body-focused behaviours - this is unhealthy. Some externalising is unhealthy as well and it's helpful to have boundaries around what you will accept in this way.

But in general a lot of processing of emotions at this age will be verbal, it doesn't mean that it always will be, just like she stopped throwing rolling-on-the-floor tantrums and started to use her words instead. It's progress, it's just very slow.

Came here to say this. Give her a week’s warning then rehome the pets.

Anything still in a box by the end of the weekend is going to the charity shop.
Don't look after the pets then they'll be rehomed.

Even if it is, it doesn't matter now, they can't cave at this point because when a really big issue comes up the DD will just be even worse.

Parents will disagree on what is appropriate or not for different ages, it has always been like that with certain kids/teens allowed to do things others aren't. I had a huge row with my parents around age 16-17 about being allowed to go to something several of my friends were (my parents were right as it turned out but that isn't the point). The OP hasn't asked for opinions on whether to let the DD do the activity or not.

A name change slip up doesn't mean the post is a wind up. It's fairly obvious why OP might not want to reveal the event given how it is likely to derail the entire thread and the issue isn't about WHAT they say no (or yes) to but about how to manage the fallout.

Oh wow!! Thanks for the heads up

Compare the details in both threads though. They contradict each other and can't both be true. Not just in a 'changed the details slightly so as not to be outing way' either. More a 'carefully crafted to get the biggest reaction' way.

Haven’t you already posted about this? It’s your daughter wanting to go to pride right? You are still not being unreasonable, as agreed in your original thread.

This is a tough one. But I would first separate the issues of pets and personal responsibilities from the question of being allowed to attend an activity. If she is not looking after her pets, and they are her pets and her pets alone, not family pets, you do as her parents bear some responsibility, legally, for their well being. If it were me I would have the pets rehomed to a family/ individual/animal charity who will care for them properly. She'll soon learn that she has to take responsibility for living things if failure to do so results in their removal. The same goes for other personal responsibilities like tidying up after herself and unpacking. Stop doing any laundry beyond one change of underwear and school uniform or one casual outfit for school if she doesn't wear uniform. If she wants clean stuff she'll have to pick up and put in the laundry basket and unpack. Tell her that and follow through. Always follow through. If she isn't clearing plates from the table or pulling her weight around the house, stop giving her pocket money. Tell her that from this point on, pocket money is to be thought of as a wage. Refusal to do her share will be considered a choice to forego the wages. If you deem it necessary, restrict access to devices like phones and tablets when she stops pulling her weight. Again, be clear at the start that devices like this are actually a privilege and refusal to engage will result in restriction of privileges. At no point link any of this with the argument about the activity. Make it quite clear that this is simply the consequence for not pulling her weight and not meeting her responsibilities.

As for threatening not talking to you... I tried that when I was thirteen. I tried really hard. I refused point blank to communicate with my Parents. For a few weeks actually. Mum quietly fed me and sent me to school and asked me how my day was and ignored the lack of response, simply moving on to one of my sister's for conversation. I soon caved. I needed to ask for things and tell people stuff. I wanted to complain about being served food I wasn't a fan of... After a few weeks I just gave up. Let her stop talking to you. What is she going to do if everyone quietly ignores her sulk? At some point she is going to want to complain about a thing, or ask for something. If she tells you again that she will be really miserable all summer because of this situation, simply point out to her that happiness is actually a choice. Make it a teaching moment. Give her some Albert Camus and Bertrand Russell to attempt to read if she wants. Then ignore any sulking.

The key to handling sulking in tweens and teenagers, simply ignore it. Completely.

Well like I said, I didn't read every single reply because OP has been posting a lot. But it seems to me that the other thread is OP asking whether it's a reasonable decision to say no to the event, whereas this thread is more of a general overwhelm with preteen behaviour/difficulty setting boundaries and sticking to them.

You absolutely stick to your guns. If she wants to spend the summer sulking in her room, let her get on with it
If she refuses to tidy away her stuff, gather it up in a black bin bag and stick it outside, if she doesn't fetch it in then throw it and refuse to replace it; you'll only ever have to do it once!
The pets - absolutely NOT okay to neglect them; consider telling her they will need to be rehomed

You’re teaching her a really really undervalued life lesson, the fact that something may not go the way that she wants or she may not achieve what she’d like, but when all is said and done and the activity/event/goal passes, she is still the same person as before and ultimately she is okay!
exceptionally important to learn this .. because life has a way of putting us on our arses and it’s great to be able to accept and bounce back!

Put parental locks on the phone. You can regulate her time spent per app or overall from your own phone. easier done with an iPhone as Google can let the child take control when they are 13. Sounds like you are going to need to suck it up for her being a nightmare for a bit. She is not used to boundaries or you and your DH having a united front. She is going to push back until she realises your DH and you are an immoveable force. Your collective will power has got to be stronger than hers. Remember you are the parents - it's not a democracy where she gets to chose what she does or does not do. It's a life with rules and where freedom is earned as parents realise when they're child is ready for it. Good luck - parenting tweens is a wild ride!

It doesn't matter what the activity is - her outrage is NOT justified - parents say no then the answer is no whether the kid agrees or not.

Also look at triple P program for parenting teens - game changer. They also have programs for dealing with anxiety in children etc. your local NHS/council may run groups for free. Not all areas run them for free

OMG - so the 12 year makes the decisions in your house
The parents aren't wrong - they make the decisions for the minor child that lives in their house - their decisions are the only ones that count
The kid being an entitled brat makes right/wrong irrelevant - whatever the situation the behaviour means ALL summer events and treats are cancelled

FWIW, I don't think ultimatums about the pets are likely to be helpful with an ADHD 12yo. That is just setting her up for failure and IMO is cruel. There are multiple skills involved in this which she is unlikely to be 100% independent with for a while yet, even if other children this age can be.

What you need for that is consistent and calm parental input about getting her to do it, in the same way you get her to do anything that needs to be done fairly regularly but you can't physically do for her (e.g. homework, bathing, brushing teeth, eating meals) and not rescuing her by doing it for her (without some kind of consequence in the event that a parent is forced to because she is physically absent and to leave the animal without care would be cruel).

It probably needs tackling one issue at a time (i.e. chores, pets, bedroom) and in the meantime if an adult ends up doing it because it's undone no big deal as this will at least reduce some conflict/pressure. But it does help a lot if you take this on as part of a longer-term plan, and if there are too many other issues to tackle and the pets are so far on the horizon then it can be simpler to simply mentally write these off as adult tasks but agree NO more pets after they die. And in the event that an adult taking on the pets officially is too much, then consider rehoming. But don't put it on her as an ultimatum, and don't use pets as a reward/threat for any behaviour, IMO - make an adult, executive decision about whether the responsibility is one your household can handle, and follow through.

Well done for holding firm - it’s the only way she‘ll learn that you mean business. I have a lovely phrase I use when my 12 year old boy occasionally badgers about something, which is “it’s been asked and answered” and I refuse to engage any more than just repeating the phrase “asked and answered”. Obviously like you I explain to him the first time why he can’t do / have whatever the thing is that he’s asking about, but after that if he moans or asks again it’s just “asked and answered”. He rarely asks more than the first time now, and is pretty good at moving on with other things, but he is naturally a dopamine chaser and so we have had to be very firm with him (unlike our eldest who has never really asked for anything unreasonable).

Once she realises you aren’t going to move on this, she will give up asking and it won’t ruin the whole summer - it might feel like it now, but I bet it won’t. Do other lovely fun things with her (but try not to over compensate) and hopefully she’ll move on fairly quickly.

She can say what she likes but youve decided. Emotional blackmail shouldnt fly.

You say "pets" why does she have multiple pets when she doesnt look after them or her willingness to care for them depends on her mood. Id be having a convo with her about how freedoms come with responsibilities and she cant do what she wants if she refuses to be responsible. Id even say to her if she doesnt love her pets enough to give them consistent care you will remove them.

As for unpacking. Id leave her stuff in her room, she will do it when she wants something

Why would you not just say what the activity is OP? All this secret squirrel behaviour is very odd, I don't get it. If it is Pride then i would look to see if there's a family friendly event as part of it that you could take her to.

How much time do you spend with her? How much time do you spend body doubling? It can be really helpful for those with ADHD. If you want her playing with the rabbits/hamster why don't you do it with her? It will help motivate her, it gives you chance to bond, have fun, get her off a screen and have a really good talk. Telling a child they can talk to you any time is not the same as actually taking the time to talk to them.

You say DH has spoilt her but have you given her enough of your time? - taking her to do activities doesn't count. How much do you actually do with her? Get her doing jobs around the house while you do other things alongside her. Keep in mind also that if she has ADHD she may be emotionally 3 years behind her peers - if you look at her through that lens it might change your expectations a little.

When she says "ill do it later" why arent you saying you'll do it now? You arent playing out/going to X/doing Y until its done?

Have you not said, when youre hungry would you like it if I said ill feed you later?

I notice you’ve just moved house. Is it a new area? Is she trying to make new friends and worried about what others might say if she doesn’t go to the activity. She may be under more pressure than you realise just now?!

Are you stopping her pocket money if she doesn't look after her pets ?.l agree that you have spoiled her and now are reaping the benefit.

https://www.kooth.com/ is a website for teenagers to help with wellbeing.