How to handle a 12-year-old refusing to accept a ‘NO’?

[YellowMellow99]

I’m looking for some advice please. TIA for your help and please be kind. 🙏🏼
Our 12.5 year old DD latched on to the idea of going to an activity this summer that DH (her father) and I deemed age inappropriate. We explained this to her and said no. We said she can choose another activity.
She’s completely refusing to take no for an answer and has been really upset, angry, uncooperative and argumentative.
It’s tempting to give in to her but that’s what DH used to do and look where that got us!
DD is very smart and (like any tween/teen her age) can be quite manipulative to get her way. She refuses to help with anything, unpack her things (we just moved house a month ago), she’s also not looking after her pets. She says she’d do more if we take her to this event but we already said no and explained why. DH and I have a united front. DD is generally lazy as DH used to just do stuff for her and she soon learned that she should ‘just enjoy being a child’. DH came to realise that this was not a good idea and we are trying to change things and get DD take on more responsibilities (at least tidy up after herself and look after some of her pets) but she’s just very demanding, doesn’t do things unless she gets something out of it, and she can be uncooperative and difficult.
I think DH doing everything for her made her quite spoiled and she’s our only child so that probably didn’t help either.
I’m giving all this as a background information.
She said she’ll be miserable and upset while summer and not talk to us, unless we take her to the event.
I had physically and emotionally abusive parents and I always wanted to do my best for my child. She knows I’m always here and she can talk to me any time. DH and I both love her so much.
I’m looking for advice on how to deal with this and how to help her through it. We already explained to her why we said no, she’s not accepting, and we also explained it to her that in life sometimes you just don’t get what you want and you need to be okay with that and that’s what resilience is. I think she might be influenced by others too. She is not allowed on SM and only has WhatsApp for the last month or so.
Thank you!

There’s another thread where the poster has told her similar age child they can’t go to a Pride event in their medium size local town.

Is that you?

It sounds like the phone is the issue. I would definitely remove the phone or at very least chatGPT and get her some proper help. Can you pay for therapy with a ND specialist?
chatGPT is very validating so whatever she says to it, it’ll say how clever she is and that she’s right. She needs real life help from an expert.
whatsapp have you checked the chat? Is there a hidden thread? How do you know she’s talking to her friends only?
id be a bit worried at the insistence to go to an event where none of her peers will be present. Whom is she hoping to meet?
pets are easy. Give her 4 weeks to show she can care for them and play with them. If she doesn’t they go. Yes she’ll say it’s your fault. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t know full well it’s her own fault.
I’m struck by how fragile you think she is.

100% this.

Not allowing your child to feel discomfort, to have to wait, to feel a consequence is at the crux of it.

ADHD thrives on routines, predictably, exercise and quick wins. Phones “feel”
good for the dopamine but they ultimately wreck habits, routines, impact self esteem and agency.

No app can be put on teen phone without. Me getting a notification about it. Teen is 14 and still doesn’t have insta or TikTok. Phone is strictly limited. It’s antisocial to be on the phone while in company- why is she on it when you’re driving to dance? It’s so rude.

Rules, boundaries help children feel
safe and secure and ADHD brains thrive on patterns.

you all need family therapy. Your husband and you need to be on the same page.

As you've discovered there is a time for tough love and this behaviour warrants it. Don't give in. Don't allow her to reopen discussions. Disconnect the activity request from her refusal to tidy up after herself as she is trying to manipulate to get her own way. If you give in, you will have rewarded this behaviour.

Separately, her pets can be rehomed if she really doesn't want them, and if you don't want to look after them long term . It's not fair to the pets to neglect them

Sorry I don’t know where I got 10 from. But have you been clear about your expectations. Does she have a visual animal chores chart? Do you support her by using techniques like body doubling. I don’t think what you are expecting her to her unreasonable but I suspect there is a lack if support to help her achieve that.

That’s holiday quite would be meg with

“don’t count on it kiddo. I already have <insert person> on standby to stay with you as I am NOT holidaying with someone behaving like you are”

Thjng is my DS knew I meant business with comments like this. I wonder if this hardline is so new for you and DH that she won’t take it seriously?

Agree with this.

OP of her phone is designed to shut off from 7.45 but she wants later how about changing the time for shut off?

So it shuts off at 4pm (or whenever she gets home from school) and will be turned back on until 8.30 but only after she’s done her animals or a chore.

I thought this.

I don’t think it’s about tightening g the ship but rather tightening expectations and changing the response.

There’s nothing to say your way wouldn’t work with another child with a different personality.

But you have to parent the child you get!!!! And some are certainly more challenging than others!!

But I do believe that the future is bright for DD and your relationship because you are open, honest and willing to listen to suggestions to try and get it right.

And you’ll have your hostage negotiators skill badge by the end of it 😂

But what is the activity? Why are you dodging the question?

Instead, you've allowed her to do what she likes and use ai for mental health.

Great parenting right there. No wonder she has anxiety if she's using an app for mental health support.

If I told my mother I was never speaking to her again when she didn't let me do what I wanted my mother would have said "good" and that would have been the end of it.

Far from being psychologically damaged, I realised that my threats didn't work.

Because she's been here long enough to know that the thread will turn into an argument about whether other people think the activity is ok or not.

And it doesnt matter whether others think it is or it isnt age appropriate. The op and her husband have made that judgement for their child.

The op isnt asking for opinions on whether other people think the activity is age appropriate because shes already made thst decision, but youd better believe thats all the thread would be if she described it! That and whether posters think the activity would be suitable for their own child at that age.

Surely posters can accept that the op and her husband made that decision, believe it is the correct one for their child and just answer the question asked instead?

Also, if you get stricter, her behaviour will get worse for a short time at first. Look up "extinction burst". She'll think you aren't serious and if she kicks off you'll give in.
And no phones in her room, definitely no Chat GPT (you can block or allow sites through Family Link if she has an Android (.

Ever occur to you that she has anxiety and all these problems.Because you let her do what she wants?

But it may well be an entirely appropriate activity and OP might need the wake up call

JFC. Are you in for a world of problems very soon if you don’t get a handle on this.

No, if OP and her H both agree (in this at least, thankfully) that it is not age appropriate, then that is that.

They need help with a ton of stuff, but they certainly dont need MN posters deciding for them that they are wrong in this particular boundary.

You and the Dad both sound like complete wet lettuces and she’s become a brat! She says this, she needs to do that… who’s in charge here op?
Get a backbone, she wants to go to dance class and needs you to drive you 40 min there and back - you tell her to get off the phone and communicate with you. A child doesn’t need to wind down after a school day and social interaction by scrolling socials each way. If she’s so spent after a hard day communicating with peers, no phone will do her good!

Rehome the pets, show her the consequences of her actions. You two are lapping it up and making a Verucca Salt!

The issue is that she’s not taking no for an answer.

That is not a problem.
She doesn't have to accept it.
What can she do about it? Scream, shout, swear at you, physically attack you, lock herself in her room, go into your room and break your stuff, etc. etc.

Whatever she does, you stand by your decision.
She does not have to accept it.

Your real problem is that can't cope with your own emotions in this situation. You hate to see her upset and just want her to accept the situation so that she will go back to being calm and happy.
DH is the same or worse in that he can't cope with his own emotions.

As parents, you can't let your own emotions affect your parenting skills.

Appropriate in some other people's opinions and likely inappropriate in jut as many too.

Who's to say those who think it appropriate are right anyway? It's equally possible they would be the ones 'wrong'.

Also, age appropriate depends as much on the individual child as anything. One one person's child is ready for, another person's child is not .

Just tell her no means no and if she wants to mope all summer that's fine by you. And then don't mention it again and if she does don't engage, it's done with.

Does she get pocket money for tidying up and looking after pets etc, if she does that stops when she doesn't do things.

The most important thing you can teach a child is that no means NO! From a baby my DD has been taught and knows that if I say no I mean no… if she bagged after I’d said no there were consequences ! As a small child that might have been loosing sweets for a day or access to my iPad. Whatever meant the most at the time.

now as a teenager (15) that’s loosing her phone.. although it doesn’t happen often as she knows I won’t back down so she doesn’t try. Sure she huffs and puffs and sulks in her room for a few hours but I just leave her to it! She isn’t vocal about it as she knows is not worth it as she’ll just piss me off more and then I’m more inclined to say no to other stuff!

Put her boxes from the house move in her bedroom. Tell her if it’s not unpacked within 2 days you’ll take it all to charity!
if she’s not looking after her pets then I’m sorry but unless it’s a family dog I’d be telling her if she doesn’t look after them then you’ll rehome them! And then proceed to take photos of them and say it’s for rehoming sites !! Or for a local rescue centre…. And mean it!! I remember as a kid I wasn’t looking after my hamster so my dad banished it to the shed until I cleaned it out. I reckon if I’d forgotten to look after it still it would’ve gone!
Tell your DD that if she wants to spoil her whole six weeks off acting like a toddler having a tantrum then that’s her loss BUT YOU ARE NOT CHANGING YOUR MIND ON THIS EVENT… so her choice… she can sulk and have a miserable time OR she can accept you’re not taking her and choose something more age appropriate.
The most important thing here is that you do not back down or negotiate!

Dont try to buy her back … or beg… simply say - X isn’t happening no matter how icy you huff and puff, so either choose something sensible or ruin your summer break!

@YellowMellow99

You do realise that a Kindle is just an Amazon branded tablet, yes? So if she has free access to her Kindle "for reading" all night, she can also access all the apps you might find on a smart phone?

Kindles aren't just e readers.

What?? Well my Dd has a kindle and I didn’t know that. I don’t think she realises either as she only had books on it

It’s irrelevant, her parents have said no.