Does 50/50 actually mess kids up?

[Writer034]

I've two DC (13 and 15) and split up with my ex DH 9 years ago, so they don't really remember the time of us living as one family. He always insisted on 50/50 so we used to do 2/2/3 and then a couple of years ago changed to week on week off (to include weekends). My kids are, on the whole, ok and happy, bar normal teenage stuff. The relationship with my ex DH was brilliant for years, although it's been more strained in the last 6 months after he moved in his new GF and her DD into his house (but it's still ok, and we pop into each other's houses to drop kids off or drop stuff off, etc, and are chilled and friendly face to face).

But my kids don't seem to think of either place as their home.

They only ever say 'mum's house' and 'dad's house'. I know that's partly so they can diferentiate them, but I do get a sense that they don't feel they fully belong in either, because it's an even split. It's almost like 'both' for them means 'neither'.

For example, they'll ring me up and say 'is it ok if I pop round' (and do the same with their dad).

It doesn't matter how many times I've said 'this is your home, why are you asking?' They have their own keys of course. My DD (15) wanted to come here the other evening, but was worried about gate crashing on my DP and me. We were both like, what are you doing asking, it's your home?

(My DP adores her and she adores him back, so this is not anything to do with him personally. One year I had a Xmas party and, although both my DP and my ex DH were here, my DD spent most of the night glued to my DP as she really does love him a great deal).

Any psychologists on MN? What is your take and will my children be damaged by this view of, not two homes, but actually none? What do other 50/50 parents think and have you experienced this?

“Yes, there were different expectations but if she didn't like the way it was done in one house she could always say so and it would be open to negotiation.”

This is rather a large burden for a child young enough to need their teddy bear.

You now say you had everything she needed, not that she had all the same things at each house. This is very different isn’t it - ‘you have your gymnastics kit’ vs ‘I have exact duplicates of all my toys and clothes at each house’.

The point is 100% accurate though. Look at the relationships thread and if someone says they’ve met a guy who sees their kids EOW/e. Or on stepparents board. The comments are invariably that this guy is a lazy piece of shit who does no parenting. Always lots of comments that he had better be paying way in excess of CMS.
Then you get threads like this where people opine that 50/50 is essentially the worst thing you can do to a child. And that dads who have 50/50 are doing it purely to avoid paying CMS and are as shit as the ones who have less contact.
Which is it? How can you possibly be a good dad if you’re shit for not seeing your kids enough and also shit for seeing them too much?

Sorry but that has nothing to do with my question to another poster.

I don't think all dads are shitty, I don't think all mums are shitty. I think that parents who split up and then put their own needs before their children's are extremely shitty and that was the post I was responding to.

I have never known a child with a complete duplicate set of items at both parents' house - every book, pen, Lego set and game replicated so that they never find that the thing they want to play with is elsewhere. I don't think it's necessarily realistic (and it's certainly wasteful!) so naturally there will be times when the child doesn't have what they want to hand in such a situation.

When we nested, we (the adults) shared a small flat and the kids were always at the house. All rented. It was very expensive and not affordable long term.

I also don't understand how 'nesting' for the parents can be more expensive than maintaining a main family home and a second space for one of the parents. If anything, I'd assume it could be cheaper because the smaller flat doesn't need to have room for the children to stay.

Personally, as someone who lived with a less-than-ideal custody arrangement as a child, and who now has friends trying to work out the best way to split the kids' time, I would have hated a 50 50 split - I wouldn't want to live like that. I think that the 'nesting' option is the most child-friendly solution, but it can only work with two parents that are prepared to work together to the benefit of the children.

I also think the addition of new partners to a home can make a big difference. I felt welcome at my dad's house until his girlfriend/wife moved in. Then it was 'their' home and we 'visited'.

It sounds like the OP's kids are aware of that too - it's tough to have to consider your parents' love life as a teen, but better than the alternative of accidentally interrupting them and feeling a gooseberry in your own home.

But those people have chosen that. They believe that the partner or job is worth it. And they presumably have their 'own home' that they can return to/choose to live in if the situation no longer works for them.

None of that is true for children who have little or no autonomy over their living arrangements and who do not feel like they have a 'home' in either living situation.

It sounds as if you all co-parent really well OP and you’ve done the best you can in the circumstances.

However, as you’re asking, I think 50/50 is awful and for many children, it will leave them without a sense of home.

In your case, you have a new DP and now your ex has a partner and a young child. No matter how well your DC get on with your DP, your DC may feel as if both their parents have separate established “units” while they’re just on the outside, shuttling between the two.

I think the fact that your DD is afraid to upset someone by voicing her opinions says it all, unfortunately. I can well remember the feeling of wanting to keep both parents happy by not saying what I really thought. It really takes a toll emotionally.

Who would your DD want to stay with do you think? If it’s you, would your ex be resistant because of the finances? Or because he genuinely wants them either way him 50/50? Or because of control?

If he has a young child in the household he might be grateful for a bit of breathing space. If your DD wants to stay with him all the time he might be less keen.

I think you start by having a confidential chat with DD to find out what she really wants, and then take it from there. 15 is quite old to be lugging your stuff around every few days.

And maybe have a chat with your younger child too.

Ask your DD if she'd like to live with you and just see her dad one or two nights a week. Tell her you'd all be fine with it. She should be allowed to choose at her age, without worrying about hurting anyone's feelings.

That's really interesting and is something I'd consider if I got divorced. My step-daughter was 50/50 for a long time and was a very fraught kid. As she's got older we've had her EOW and she seems much more relaxed and confident.

Yes.

You don't use all your possessions every day.

So what if they don't have the same Lego set, they have other Lego sets and construction toys. What child is going to get upset about not having the same pen, unless they are autistic and very rigid about specific things? When I need a pen, I just get a pen, I don't care if it's the same pen I used yesterday. Books might go between houses whilst they are being read, but that's just one book that the child is currently reading.

DH and I take turns on bedtimes and I read different books to DD than DH. I'm currently reading Ballet Shoes, he's been making his way through the Farthing Wood series. She can cope with not getting Ballet Shoes on "his" night and vice versa, it's no different.

I think this should only be said if it works both ways. Lots of Mums who don’t agree with 50:50 would not be happy to be the one only seeing their children one or two nights a week. So why should a good Dad be happy to only see their child one or two nights a week? Especially if they weren’t the one to end the relationship?

How is it a burden to express yourself? She never had any issues saying, "At Mums we always do this, I don't like doing it the other way," and I think it's really underestimating kids to think they're not capable of stating their likes and dislikes. I don't see why you'd need exact duplicates. Lots of families rotate toys, so children have access to maybe 10 activities at a time, but no-one says that it's damaging for them not to have access to everything they own all at once all the time.

Of course nesting is more expensive because you have the nest, ie the former family home and then two additional residences for each of the parents. Nobody can take the equity from the former family home to buy anything so likely rented. And no I’m never going to suggest that someone who has ended their relationship should be forced to share a home (even if they are not there at the same time) with their ex. That’s so beyond inappropriate so each needs a separate space. It’s totally unrealistic and as I said, confusing for the kids who are the only permanent fixture there. Imagine the shower is leaking and dad leaves it because it’s handover tomorrow and mum decides to stick it out because it’s only a week and the poor kids may feel responsible for house maintenance or to raise the issue with whichever parent is there who may or may not already be aware of it. It’s fantasy land stuff.

if someone can show me all these studies saying that children are better off effectively stopping the parental relationship with the non-resident parent (because it’s pretty hard to parent when you don’t live with your kid) rather than having two homes I am all ears.

My ex DH pays £600 pm maintenance even though the kids spend equal number of nights at both houses. He's a very high earner - in fact, I can vouch for the fact he spends more on his own romantic life every month than on child support, but I don't think I can begrudge him because in addition to this he also pays for ad hoc expensive items (there are school trips which cost a fortune, like £1-2000, my DS has an expensive mountain bike passion, etc). So I don't think his resistance to change 50/50 would be to do with money, but I also don't know whether he would agree to increase anything if DC were here full time.
I just don't think my daughter would do it, even if a part of her wanted to. She'd be very worried that her dad would be sad about it. Which I think he would probably to some degree, but he does have a GF now who, with her young child, lives in his house full time. My DC have struggled with this and the fact that he now has a full-time family which doesn't include his biological children.

Right - so there have been issues, and she has expressed difficulty in each household doing things in different ways. Do you empathise with the challenge of having to live by two different sets of rules?

And you now also admit that indeed she is separated from her belongings - but that you just don’t see this as important.

Living between two homes isn’t like having toys on rotation (!).

I would think the most important thing is that you and your ex modelled civilised behaviour and that your children seem normal and happy.
Yes 50/50 is not ideal but you can’ change it now, except by asking if they’d prefer to spend the majority of the time in one place?

This I agree with. I think inflicting blended families on children is the height of selfishness and often seems to cause awful problems (although of course we don’t hear about the ones that worked.)

This was when she was a child, we have a different arrangement now she's nearly an adult.

I think you're being ridiculous.

My daughter isn't always happy with all the rules and will say so and we'll consider whether she has a point or whether she's just pushing boundaries. A child saying they have a preference isn't indicative of deep issues with their childhood.

I don't see why there is any difference between "Your Playmobil is in the attic this week, so you can play with your Lego," and "Your Playmobil is at your Dad's house, so you can play with your Lego."

Making every minor inconvenience into some sort of trauma is peak Mumsnet.

I think 50 50 is very damaging.

My 19 year old DD and I have talked a lot about the outcomes for some of her friends now they're older teenagers. Its little things, as well as the big things. Never being able to say, 'can we drop x home?' Its always, 'can we drop to her mum's house', with the implication that x doesnt have a a HOME, she just has 2 houses that belong to other people and she says there periodically.

They're also often liable to telling lies. Sometimes little ones, but other times big whoppers, and I'm sure thats to do with the 50 50.

Its not something I'd want to subject my child to. No sense of belonging in a meaningful way. Many people recognise Boarding School Syndrome but I think there should be 50 50 Syndrome too.

Who puts current toys in the attic?

From my work with children, I’ve never met one who didn’t find this setup incredibly stressful. Sadly, a lot will never admit to their parents how they feel.
Similarly, the blended family doesn’t work nearly as well parents are often led to believe and can do a great deal of harm.

Lots of families rotate toys to keep mess down to a minimum and it's been shown that having access to fewer toys at once improves the quality of play with the ones they can access. We don't put things in the attic but we regularly swap out the toys which DD can access in the living room with ones which are stored elsewhere in the house.

I've had this from my ex too - And it's definately added to especially my youngests approach - she also feels like she has to manage her father so he doesn't become angry.

My DDs used to do 50/50, was 3/3/2 then later 1 week on, 1 week off. Now my eldest is at uni and my youngest has recently had enough of trying to keep it together during her weeks with her dad. It took a long time for her to decide to change from 50/50. A lot of that was due to guilt of letting her dad down and him reacting badly. She finally understood that she isn't responsible for her dad's feelings on this, and instead looked at the behaviours that made her choose the change from 50/50.

Now he sees her 1 day per fortnight-ish - he could see her more, he chooses not to. She always sleeps here. Since the change, she has been much more relaxed and has told me she is relieved. My DDs love their dad but that doesn't mean they have to live with him half the time.

But having to live 50/50 in different homes isn’t ’a minor inconvenice’, that’s the point. It has many, many factors which can cause disruption.

I think it’s really bizarre to refuse to acknowledge it might cause any issues or be disliked. That is a convenient position for the adults to take, as they can do as they please - just ignoring that there may be any issues in the children who are forced to go along with this arrangement.

But is it the 50/50 they are finding hard or spending some time at mums and some at dads. Do children who do this find it better? What is the tipping point?

I agree totally about blended families.