Does 50/50 actually mess kids up?

[Writer034]

I've two DC (13 and 15) and split up with my ex DH 9 years ago, so they don't really remember the time of us living as one family. He always insisted on 50/50 so we used to do 2/2/3 and then a couple of years ago changed to week on week off (to include weekends). My kids are, on the whole, ok and happy, bar normal teenage stuff. The relationship with my ex DH was brilliant for years, although it's been more strained in the last 6 months after he moved in his new GF and her DD into his house (but it's still ok, and we pop into each other's houses to drop kids off or drop stuff off, etc, and are chilled and friendly face to face).

But my kids don't seem to think of either place as their home.

They only ever say 'mum's house' and 'dad's house'. I know that's partly so they can diferentiate them, but I do get a sense that they don't feel they fully belong in either, because it's an even split. It's almost like 'both' for them means 'neither'.

For example, they'll ring me up and say 'is it ok if I pop round' (and do the same with their dad).

It doesn't matter how many times I've said 'this is your home, why are you asking?' They have their own keys of course. My DD (15) wanted to come here the other evening, but was worried about gate crashing on my DP and me. We were both like, what are you doing asking, it's your home?

(My DP adores her and she adores him back, so this is not anything to do with him personally. One year I had a Xmas party and, although both my DP and my ex DH were here, my DD spent most of the night glued to my DP as she really does love him a great deal).

Any psychologists on MN? What is your take and will my children be damaged by this view of, not two homes, but actually none? What do other 50/50 parents think and have you experienced this?

A right? Are you sure? It's OK if some things in a parent's life are what they choose. It doesn't always have to be what DC prefer.

I'm not really sure why you're so hung up on this point. How many times do I need to explain that there was not enough room for two teenagers + car seat, as the car is simply not designed for that. Like, literally not enough room - I don't understand why you're arguing over this or what bothers you so much about it.

In any case it's completely tangential to the original post and my thoughts around 50/50 split.

Do you have your own room, a wardrobe full of your clothes, storage space for toys and books which are there permanently, so you only arrive with your phone and the bag you take to work? Are you able to invite friends over the same as you would at your own place? Do you treat the kitchen, bathroom and bedrooms as your own and do your own thing independent of DP?

What exhausts me about being a "guest" is the packing and unpacking and the constant socialising with the hosts, falling into place with their routine. A child who stays 50% of the time doesn't feel like they are "visiting" and have to be "on" the whole time. If they want to go up to their room and relax or if they want to veg out in front of the TV in their pyjamas then they can.

Well, they should have.

Except for specific things, e.g. if they are always with Mum on a Wednesday and gymnastics is on a Wednesday they might only have one gymnastics kit.

And in winter I would assume they'd wear the same coat between houses. Perhaps a favourite teddy bear or a specific outfit they want to wear to a party that weekend might travel with them, but not a suitcase or backpack.

I don't know, but it definitely doesn't seem practical.

You’re welcome. Are you going to start to teach your kids to be assertive and stand up for themselves then?

Also, you said it was a squeeze with a car seat and two teenagers (a 5 year old absolutely still needs a car seat and it should be ERF so he can RF to 7), now you’re saying they literally didn’t fit. That obviously isn’t true, because they did.

The 5 year old’s safety trumps your teenagers comfort.

You didn't explain that. You said it was uncomfortable, not that they didn't physically fit.

I'm just saying it's not your role to resolve issues with them and their father's set up, and it's possible that contributes to the people pleasing seen in DD. I.e. if there are no problems you don't have to intervene.

How do you know it ‘suits the parents’? Have they said that? (Not having a go, just curious.)

I HATED not seeing my kids every other week. It didn’t suit me. I would have preferred to be in a happy, functional household with a happy, functional marriage. I shouldn’t have got married young. I should, ideally, have avoided the highly traumatic childhood experiences that led me to get married young in the first place. But having messed up by marrying entirely the wrong person, I then tried to do my best by everyone for years. I wanted my kids full time, but my ex wouldn’t do that. In the end I thought it was better, on balance, for my kids to live with the instability of week on/week off, rather than have an increasingly depleted and depressed mother living with their dad.

Maybe it’s about harm reduction in the family system. ‘Suiting’ can sound quite flippant. (Not saying you meant it that way.)

Sounds like polite kids to me, also potentially aware that you might have a life beyond them hence checking it’s ok to come back early. As teens your situation seems a lot better than many others, especially the fact you can still be civil

I think it's worse when parents also have kids with new partners, and they don't feel like they belong in either family either, never mind house.

Parents who live together do all of the above but their children have one stable home. They don't need to move between houses at all.

That's the ideal situation, but in my opinion, the next best situation, in the scenario where the parents have split up, is that children have two stable homes, both set up for a smooth transition between the two, and as close as possible to equal time in both.

I think it’s farcical to claim that a child will have two full sets of everything the want at each house. You aren’t buying two sets of everything to achieve that.

They're teens - they will have two bedrooms to keep
tidy and a mange. They will have clothes they need on different days and be thinking about how to manage that in context of which home they are in.

They will be planning sports clubs to to see friends and thinking about how to accommodate their time with each parent in context of that.

They will be having to change the kinds of foods they eat, expectations around mealtimes and so on in each house (this was one of the things that drove me most crazy as a child ‘between homes’).

They will have different chores and responsibilities in each house.

As for getting to school - they may well be getting the Ange’s there are back, with differing length journeys depending on what day it is.

Then of course there might be different expectations and rules around bedtimes, curfews, access to snacks, friends visiting etc etc.

It really minimises children’s experiences of living like this to say they just need to ’show up’.

People imagine kids love it but imagine living with parents who were always guests in your house and you knew it wasn’t their real home with all their stuff. It would be really weird as a kid and I’d have hated it - almost like I was in charge of the home as a child. People on here seem to massively overestimate how important physical things like houses and possessions are to kids, almost like they’re more important than relationships. And the research from countries where 50/50 is the norm shows that it benefits children. Theres a reason we moved away from the “dad takes the kids to McDonalds for four hours on a Sunday” model from the 1980s. It wasn’t good.

I don't know an adult who would want to pack up their personal bits every 2/3 days and sleep in a different bed.

This nails it.

We never did fully 50/50 but my SD never had to bring anything with her except her favourite teddy. We had the same evenings every week so everything she needed for those clubs we had at our house and she didn't need at her Mums. There were two sets of any uniforms or anything she used on weekends. Yes, there were different expectations but if she didn't like the way it was done in one house she could always say so and it would be open to negotiation. Her friends were always welcome at both houses.

It’s great that they check as they want to make sure that you’re in and not nude etc, did you see the post recently about a son who’e argued with his dad and stormed off back home to mum and walked in on her having sex on her sofa with her new ish boyfriend? That’s what your kids are trying to avoid!

I think it sucks, but literally what is the alternative? Your husband leaves (but no abuse, he's a normal person, just didn't want to be in the relationship), and he wants 50/50. How can I prevent him having it? As to pp who said if faced with this choice, they'd rather give up custody of their children - that's a complete lie, no mother would do that for that reason. And if they did, it would fuck up the children completely. Imagine your mum giving you up!

Maybe that person should have said 50/50, most of the time, is just validating a whiny shitty Dad.

Dads can't win on here.

If he doesn't have 50/50, he's a part time Dad and isn't doing enough.
If he does, he's "whiny and shitty".

Meanwhile, Mums can decide on 50/50 or less than 50/50 or unilaterally decide to cut off contact completely and "mother knows best."

Ridiculous.

Ah see, is the problem. Why does anyone need to "win"?

"Can't win" is a turn of phrase.

If you're not familiar with it, what I'm saying is that whatever a Dad does he's harshly judged on Mumsnet and there is no level of involvement between too much and not enough.

Yes, people don’t think about the psychological impact of never again living with the non resident parent. And look at the threads on here where a child wants to move to their dad’s and so many women are “no way, I can’t live without my kids” but it’s apparently fine for the kids to live with mum full time.

Do you have children of your own?

It doesn’t nail anything. That’s actually the reality for most people who don’t live with their partners. It’s fine - I have done it myself for years. Also the reality for many who work away during the week and return at weekends. Which goes for several of my colleagues.

If the norm was that kids lived with dads, you can bet your arse that no mothers would say it’s bad for the kids to have two homes.