Should my 11-year-old be allowed more privacy from her father?

[Mandy1010]

My daughter is soon to be a 11yo. If she is in the bathroom her father will often go in there also to brush his teeth and do whatever he needs to do. In the past she has said to him that she is in there and can he come back when she has finished and not just barge in.

Last night at bedtime she was about to have a bath. She was already undressed. He went in to brush his teeth and do his bathroom routine. I overheard him telling her that she is not to lock the bathroom door as if she had a problem in there (•like a medical problem) that the lock is too strong and he wouldn’t be able to get in there to help. I kind of feel like he is saying it as he doesn’t want to be locked out and that at this age it is inappropriate.
I said it is ok for her to lock the door if she wants to but if she doesn’t lock it and door is shut he needs to knock and only come in if she allows it. I feel this is normal. Am I wrong??
she often likes me to be in the bathroom as company so I sit on the toilet but I only do this when she requests it. I am more than happy (would prefer to) chill else whilst she is in bath/shower. he seems to think if I am in there why cant he be. I feel like I am respecting her boundaries whereas he isn’t. Aside from the biological issue that he is male and I’m female.

I don’t think he is adjusting for the fact she is not a little girl anymore.

im just looking for other people perspective.

I asked her after, as unfortunately this argument played out in front of her, what she thought . She said that it more bothers her when she wants space in her bedroom and he just comes in anyway. But I worry she is just trying to keep the peace as we argued about it in front of her about it and also he got angry at her about something unrelated yesterday which will feel fresh and she may feel she doesn’t want to make him angry.

i feel like I need to have a conversation with him about this and assert her right to privacy but want to see others point of view before I do.

I’ve just read that you have three bathrooms, making his behaviour even weirder.
Sorry op but I wouldn’t trust him around my daughter, massive red flags.
I have a teenage step daughter, she’ll happily run in and out of the bathroom ect not caring to much about being nude in front of me or her mum, she’d be mortified if her dad or stepdad saw her, I think they’d be equally uncomfortable, it’s really weird that your husband is doing this.

@Mandy1010 I is well understood that some fathers take a sudden sexual interest in a female child entering puberty.

And then go on to abuse them sexually.

Mothers are rarely alert and sexual abuse can occur without mother truly realising, or mother is in denial of what horror is going on, when she is not there, asleep or in another part of the house.

don't risk being that mother, you must act straight away an remain ever vigilant when your husband is around.

to be frank i would leave the risks are all to obvious to me.

It might ‘just’ be a control thing but I’d be very worried that there’s a creepy side to him too.
If he disrespects your daughter and then gets angry, why are you still tolerating him? Does he disrespect you too?
If he doesn’t dial down then you absolutely need to put your daughter first.

She is reaching adolescence of course she needs male free private space what it his problem.
spell it out to him - over the next few months years she’s like to be: trying to get her bra to fit, changing a sanitary pad while she has a period, masterbating, shaving her arm pits- if he wants to take a risk of seeing any of these things then tell him he needs his hard drive checked.

He needs to keep his toothbrush in a different room to where she bathes

For context I remember my dad walking into the room once when I was changing about that age and I said can you knock next time, he apologized and never ever did it again and always knocked from that dad forward. That’s what a normal father does.

I don’t think it screams potential grooming or abuse. I don’t think it’s ok at all and it needs to stop, but I think it screams more he can’t accept his daughter’s growing up and isn’t a little girl he can control anymore. Is he quite controlling OP?

I had a similar issue with my DH and DD. I don't think he had a good understanding of it as it is different sometimes with mothers and sons. I explained to him that I've experienced life as a girl with my body changing and how uncomfortable I felt around males, including my dad. Not because I was worried about anything inappropriate but just because we we're different sexes with different bodies so I would not have been comfortable if I didn't have privacy.

If he can't understand her feeling uncomfortable then she'll have to lock the door. A knock before entering sign on her bedroom door too. He's so out of order.

Dad should be respecting her boundaries. I personally find his behaviour and attitude odd. If he is genuinely concerned about her welfare in case she falls etc then its easy enough to change to a lock that can be opened from the outside IN AN EMERGENCY. But he'd need to respect that when it's locked he stays out.

I have to be honest and say husband's behaviour is definitely raising red flags for me.

Your husband does not need to be in the bathroom with your daughter. He knows he shouldn't and even after being asked not to be he still does it. You have a serious problem and i would be keeping a very careful eye on him, in fact he wouldn't be in anywhere near my daughter.

Your poor daughter is growing up (difficult at the best of times) with a dad who thinks it's ok to walk in while she is in the bath and whom she is nervous about getting angry. This is not a safe or comfortable situation for her. Home should be her happy, safe place while going through adolescence, this is not the case here.

I honestly don't think talking to him or putting a lock on the door is going to resolve this issue. Longer term I would be looking at getting out of this relationship. You KNOW there is no reasonable excuse for him going into the bathroom while she is there, none at all.

@Mandy1010I've just read the whole thread. Can I respectfully suggest that you may want to make contact with your local Women's Aid or other DA support organisation. It sounds like you might benefit from talking with soneone who understands the dynamics youre living with.

I'm glad you are going to address it, for you and your daughter. Its really important that your husband knows he us out of order, but i suspect it won't be a one and done situation.

At 11 I had fully formed boobs and menstruated. There is no way my father would have come into the bathroom while I was using it. He respected my boundaries and, furthermore, understood completely that I needed privacy. Your husband has something seriously wrong with him that he does not understand that. I would seriously think that he had an ulterior motive by being in the bathroom with her.

I don't think that unnecessarily arranging to be in the same room as your daughter while she is naked, after she expresses her discomfort, means he can't accept she's growing up and isn't a little girl anymore.

Most men naturally decide to give their daughter privacy once she's old enough to wash herself.

So this man insisting on seeing his daughter naked when she has repeatedly expressed she doesn't want him to, paired with him going into her bedroom when she doesn't want him in there, makes me worry he could already be being sexually abusive at worst - and is entitled, creepy, and behaving like a sexual abuser at best.

I think it’s dodgy too. My DH would never do that.

Her father is extremely disrespectful and that’s more of a problem than the privacy issue. It’s nothing to do with at her age / she’s not a little girl anymore - his behaviour would be disrespectful at any age. You don’t just walk into a bathroom when someone else is using it. And she’s learning that it’s normal or acceptable behaviour.

Yes. He can be quite controlling. Patriarchal. Use anger to control.

he gaslights me which is part of the reason i think I haven’t been firmer and needed to ask on here.

is this really a household/man you want your children growing up in/around?

She’s at an age where periods could be on the horizon (if not already). He should absolutely respect her privacy.

Based on this and all that you have said, I really think you need to reflect on whether this relationship is good for you and your daughter. Controlling, patriarchal, anger, gaslighting- aside from the awful impact on you, your DD is absorbing all of this in all the micro interactions between you, as well as in the big arguments and will become her normal. You already think she was trying to placate and you too have been tip toing around your DH for reasons I understand.

Controlling, patriarchal, anger, gaslighting- these are not things you can navigate and just try harder on your part, it is unacceptable behaviour that you need to take you and your daughter away from. If you have to explain these things to someone- can you please treat me with respect and dignity and be kind as you are supposed to love and care for me- they are so screamingly obvious elements of decent behaviour that there is pretty limited likelihood of any change. Just more of the same. I don’t mean to sound harsh and I appreciate you’ve just given a snapshot of things, but my advice would be to speak to someone you trust in real life and work out practical steps to leave.

Yes she needs more privacy. If she feels uncomfortable, which she clearly does and has asked for him to stop.. he needs to stop. It’s slightly weird that he’s not respecting her personal boundaries?

the lock - I agree with DH. At 10 years old I wouldn’t want the door locked if it’s not easy to get through just in case - but there would be the promise of privacy. While she’s in there no one else can go in unless she says otherwise. Would a ‘do not disturb’ type door hanger help her feel a bit more protected without locking the door perhaps?

It's time to seek support so you can leave then. You are teaching/showing your child that she must give in to angry men and is not allowed to have any boundaries at all. She will become a people pleaser and her life will not be hers. She will also gravitate towards abusive men for partners as that dynamic will feel "safe". Is this the future you want for her, to see her broken?

Contact Women's Aid and your GP and start putting you and your daughter first.

(I started my periods at 10 so your daughter could start tomorrow even if she's not 11. She needs privacy and the right to ask for it from anyone).

You’ve already had some excellent advice and I agree with pp so I want to add something different.
It is also not ok how you are being treated. All couples are different in how they approach issues but this man is jealous of your relationship with your daughter and controls the household with his temper. This is absolutely not ok. At the very least in an argument (or any time) you should feel safe.
You need to think about your future. Is this the man you want supporting you through her teenage years and when she leaves home and it’s just you?
What does happiness look like to you?

I wish you well and please return to Mumsnet if you need to make some tough decisions about your relationship as there are some posters who can give brilliant advice.

Absolutely, PLEASE respect her boundaries. Kids tend to start wanting privacy around nudity, at different rates. So one girl aged 11 might be totally at ease with this, but another girl aged 8, is already wanting to lock the bathroom door.
Im speaking from experience, as someone whose father trampled over my boundaries and privacy when I was a preteen. This included some incidents which have had a dramatic affect on me in later life.
Its so easy to make a child feel helpless(and ‘ashamed’, which became an emotion I later associated the events with) when you are an undressed young child, and a grown adult refuses the most basic request of respect for your undressed or naked body.