SOCIAL SERVICES

[KiArA01]

okay, so a few days ago over the school holidays my 1 year old daughter hit my 4 year old in the face and cut his eye from her nails. My 4 year old has gone to school and they asked what had happened and he said daddy pushed me. Then he said punched. Then he said pushed again. The school then rang me and ask what happened and I explained that his sister hit him which caused the marks on his eye however yesterday (Monday) at the time I was cooking a big meal for my family with my partner and after being told multiple times to leave the kitchen as I’m in a flat and it’s dangerous for my son to be messing around near a hot cooker and hot pans he refused to leave so my partner raised his voice as we were very cautious we didn’t want my son to hurt himself and then my 4 year old started sweating at my partner and I said ‘don’t speak to your dad like that’ and my son replied ‘I hate you’ and my partner then had enough and he said this and went to go and put my son in his room for some time out however he ran off into the living room and tripped over the safety gate and my partner tried to grab the back on his clothes to stop him from falling which I think my son has took that as he’s pushed him as he couldn’t stop him falling in time. Now the school have rang social services and they have removed my partner from the house and said they are going to be having a meeting today with the police and school and possibly health worker to see what is needed. My partner had to sleep on a park bench last night as he had nowhere to go and my son has said this before and it got NFA’d as he was lying and my son has been telling me last night he was lying and 2 of his friends from school told him to say this. I’m unsure on what to do as it feels like the school are just out to get my partner as it’s not the first time my son has lied about something like this.
any advice would be much appreciated!

I agree as I’ve commented in the thread. At the same time we don’t know if DP might be abusive and hence the two additional kids coming along in such a short time, in one sense.

Also you are saying people are being judgemental - you have asked for peoples advice and thoughts, it may be harsh and have you questioning yourself, but it can be useful to have the harsh Mumsnet side sometimes to get you looking at the bigger picture especially when there’s social workers/safeguarding concerns

That makes sense what you say. However this is why they advise to not get with someone else so soon, it is a vulnerable time, and then you have ended up with two more kids in the space of four years.

No, I call it a Sunday dinner regardless.

Horrible situation for you OP. It is possible you will never get the total truth. So how can you move forward with possibly never getting the full truth.

Can you imagine and afford a situation where your partner isn't living with you? You can't be totally sure he hasn't done things no matter how sure you feel. And I don't blame you if that's the case. Some lie well.

He comes back, his resentment towards your son will be huge.

Kids can make this stuff up. I'm having significant trouble now my own Autistic teenager is twisting stories and trying to paint himself as a victim when he has sadly been engaging in a very upsetting pattern of manipulative behaviour.
At 5? Yes I believe it is possible to make things up. But I don't believe you're going to get exact answers here.

You need to be as open and willing to engage with SS as possible. It doesn't seem right that your partner comes back. I also understand the resentment you'd feel if it is made up. You can't guarantee that either.

It's a bit late now to go on about this.

Help and advice in support of OP and children is what this post needs right now. She can't rewind time.

The red flags are strong here OP.

The school absolutely do not have it out for your partner... they have a duty of care to your 4yr old who has repeatedly gone to school saying that your partner has abused him. I'd be worried if they didn't report it.

There's alot to unpack here!

A) You love in a tiny flat and have 3 kids 4 and under by two different men? In what world would that not be chaotic for your son

B) Your have 3 kids 4 and under who weren't supervised whilst 2 adults did the cooking? Makes no sense

C) Your partner shouted at your 4yr old (not his), to leave the room to be unsupervised? And your 4yr old saw fit to swear at and tell your partner he hates him?

D) There's no way you can know what happened outside of the kitchen!

Listen to your child who has been thrown into a world of upheaval and is blatantly looking for attention or is being serious of the claims.

Also, it's strange that your partner hasn't got one friend or family member who would take him in overnight. That's alarming too.

You’re getting a hard time here OP.
Whether the allegations are true or false Social Services have sufficient concerns at this stage to feel it necessary to ask your partner to leave whilst they investigate.
You, understandably feel worried.
Whatever you feel now you do need to cooperate with Social Services. They will want to see that you are putting your children’s safety first. I am sure you think that you are already doing this, but you need to demonstrate it to their satisfaction.
I appreciate it’s an awfully worrying situation for you, but you need to do whatever is necessary to safeguard your children, even if that means your partner moving out permanently.

All you can do is work with Social Services and follow their recommendations.
Life sounds chaotic: a 4 year old AuDHD child in a small flat with 2 younger half-siblings and a non-bio Dad? And, he's swearing and purportedly lying about serious incidents? Poor lad.
It sounds as though Social Services help, support and, yes, intervention is what your children need.
Concentrate on understanding what your child's behaviour is communicating, rather than protesting your partner's innocent.

I get that this is stressful OP, but what do you think social services should do? Surely you would want there to be a system in this country that looks out for vulnerable children? If everything happened as you said it did then you have nothing to worry about. It will be investigated and you will receive appropriate support and everyone will move on.

When my DD was a baby, my DH fell down the stairs whilst holding her and they were both injured, baby quite severely. We were referred to social services but that didn’t bother us at all. We completely understood as social services referrals protect vulnerable children every day. We would rather be investigated and cleared than have a system that doesn’t intervene and puts children at risk.

I have a five year old who told me this morning daddy has a baby so I’m not so sure about that!

Sounds really stressful @KiArA01 but unfortunately I can see it from the point of view of SS; they can’t just accept a child is not telling the truth.

MN tends to be very ‘no smoke without fire’ about social services. I don’t think you did anything wrong with the cooking; my children have certainly fallen and hurt themselves on my watch and on DHs; it happens. As awful as it is your partner slept outside and please please seek support so he doesn’t have to do this again you did the right thing in not having him home. All you can do now is to wait and see. I wish you well.

a 4 year old AuDHD child in a small flat with 2 younger half-siblings and a non-bio Dad

Yes, some children have special needs and live in poverty. Awful, isn’t it? Doesn’t mean their mother has done anything wrong.

Your 4 year old says two friends from school told him to lie about being hit by his father? Do you mean year 4? Because that sounds literally unbelievable from three 4 yr olds.

I think you need to understand that the school and social services have become involved because they are concerned about your child. They can't just take it on face value that a 4 year old is lying when he says he's been hurt by a parent.

I think you have to co-operate with the investigation and be open and honest with the social worker. They don't have it in for your partner, they have your child's safety at the forefront of their minds and they have to be thorough. Accept all help offered and hopefully it will be resolved soon.

I live in a small flat with 2 children with additional needs, probably in what would be classed as poverty.
I didn't actually say the mother had done anything wrong, did I?
My advice was based upon my own experience of SS involvement.

I doubt that 4 year old children coerce their friends into accusing an adult of abuse……..more to this I suspect.

Blunt and short reply:

1. you son might say he hates him because she’s not his real dad - this is common or becuase the other young children get more attention in his mind.
2. if you didn’t see what happened it’s worth letting them investigate. Unfortunately people get frustrated he might have pushed him and now regrets it.
3. do a Clare’s law check on your partner
4. ask for a meeting with the school and possibly parents to discuss which friends told him today these things
5. co-operate fully with social services - they school are just doing their job
6. ask for help for a bigger house
7. please don’t have any more children whilst your in such a tight living situation it’s unfair for you and the kids.
8. it seems odd your partner has no friends at all or family to stay or money for a premier inn?

That’s so OTT - remind those professionals that many families around the globe live in flats and that is not the cause of issues. Not all countries are obsessed with living in houses.

A) You love in a tiny flat and have 3 kids 4 and under by two different men? In what world would that not be chaotic for your son

This is absolutely not on the radar of SS and is absolutely no one else’s business. Given the recent news emerging about a man with more than ample space we can confidently say how much money you have does not make someone a good parent.

Your have 3 kids 4 and under who weren't supervised whilst 2 adults did the cooking? Makes no sense

Why? I have a two year old and a five year old; I don’t supervise them when I’m cooking because … I’m cooking why that makes no sense I don’t know 🤷‍♀️ That’s where TVs come in handy.

Your partner shouted at your 4yr old (not his), to leave the room to be unsupervised? And your 4yr old saw fit to swear at and tell your partner he hates him?

I have certainly told my children to leave the kitchen when I’m cooking. No, they don’t swear at me but then they don’t AFAIK have special needs.

There's no way you can know what happened outside of the kitchen

Only the last one has anything to unpick as you put it, so I’m not sure why you think there is ‘alot’ to unpick. (Two words, by the way. A lot.)

The school haven't got it in for you, they have a duty of care and if a child has made a disclosure of abuse they must take it seriously and report it. I understand that no abuse has actually occurred but the school have no way of knowing that so they pass all the information they know to social services to investigate. I get it's hard, a few years back my friend had social services called on her because her eldest told the school she had physically assaulted him (she hadn't she was trying to prevent him from hurting himself) she cooperated with social services and although it was figured out pretty quickly that her son was lying it took a few months to be fully resolved as she needed some support in other areas which social services gave.

People are being nasty on this thread.

I believe you, some four year olds do hear swearing - not ideal but also not abusive.

Both my kids told me they hated me a few times. This happens when they don’t get their own way and lack emotional regulation.

Both my kids are capable of lying and 4 or 5 is the perfect age.

Age 4 my dd voluntarily told nursery that when she was naughty I made her ride in the boot of the car. Absolute fabrication! Caused some chaos.

Age 5 I had a call from school as DS had completely convinced them he had a severe allergy to tomatoes and they called up to tell me off for not declaring it! He had described the symptoms, told them the last time he ate tomatoes and had to go to hospital. It’s just his imagination because he didn’t fancy pizza that day. He has no allergies at all.

The biggest issue you might have is so many people in a small space will cause accidents and frustration. Keeping your patience with lots of small kids is very difficult- if your dc is ND it will make it that much harder to manage his behaviour.

I would definitely be mentioning to SS that it’s very hard with a likely ND child in a small space and explain that you are doing your best and tell the truth

I have to be honest with you, it doesn’t sound “right” how you describe things in your OP. It really doesn’t sound like you’re making excuses or lying about something - I don’t know what or why, it’s just the way it reads. Maybe it’s simply panic coming across, or maybe it’s because you seem more concerned about your partner than your so

@Tillow4ever I think, that's because it reads like a 'rehearsed' explanation. Too much information and detail in it. I said that on an earlier post on here.

I'm not saying that the OP is lying. She may very well believe her partner. But as you say, the explanation is very 'off'

I work in a school and you'd be surprised how young things like this start. Especially if a child at the school has had something happen to them at some point, or they have older siblings etc

Yes, benefit of the doubt, maybe that is all it is. But if it sounds off to us, it will sound off to SS too…

Well you say he will always be your baby and he knows that, but from his point of view he isn’t the baby any more because two new children have taken that position. I bet you also tell him he is “a big boy now”, and that he needs to be careful around the baby and play nicely because he is the “big brother”. Poor kid, who is in his corner?

As far as he sees it, he is four years old ,lives with someone who isn’t his real dad, is trying to get attention from his mum but is fobbed off with “I’m busy” , or “I need to do xxx with the baby/ your sister”. on top of that the two adults in his life don’t seem to be singing off the same page when it comes to parenting, keeping their kids safe, and discipline.

You need to take all the support social services have to offer to work out how to parent these very young children. You haven’t made things easy for yourself by have three children so close together , but it is not their fault or responsibility, you are the adults, you both need to work out the issues and the solutions and stop putting the blame on your son. I doubt he has a convenient label you can pin on him, try proper parenting and attention first.