DD13 told us to f*** off.

[GoldenRoses25]

I have name changed for this.
It's late - 10 15pm and she's upset because I won't order a Pandora bracelet as they put the price up from this morning. I told her it may be Black Friday but retailers still do dynamic pricing.

She had been given a £35 voucher but that doesn't cover the cost of a charm bracelet. I was going to pay the extra but I said we'd wait now.

I think she gets grounded and doesn't go out tomorrow with friends
DH thinks I'm always dangling punishments over her. I have a tricky relationship with her, that's true and I know I can be quite punitive. However I don't think such bad language can be ignored.

Any advice appreciated
Screen ban doesn't seem sufficient.

All of this. My mother was forever moving goal posts when I was a child, and then wondered to her dying day why I had been such a difficult child. As an adult, I understand juggling 101 other things and the need for dynamic thinking & rolling with the punches when circumstances change. Before I was 20, I don't think I had a clue, and why would I have?

My mother too was all consumed with the disabilities of her middle child, and being the youngest & totally unplanned, my mother despised me at times for the difficult labour she'd had with me, the lack of room in the house, and the effort she had to put into managing my personality (I am one of three and we are all very different). It took me years to unpick it all, and she too wondered where my bad attitude & foul language had come from as I hit my mid teens. Had she any self-awareness and ability to reflect, she could have answered all her own questions.

There has been some real food for thought here which I really appreciate.

However, I don't trust myself to not fly off the handle and not shout at her again. The counsellor said I am not regulated myself, as an adult. I can see how she will end up low contact with me if I don't change.

As I have never really bonded with her (unlike my disabled child ), I find it hard to want to connect with her. Even though I know I should. My counsellor says I do love her but I just feel angry towards her a lot of the time.

Do you swear? Some people do and some people don’t. It is relevant. I don’t and would not allow a 13 year old to swear at me.

PPs have said that their parents would have “knocked them into next week”, which is a colloquialism, not an incitement to violence. But does express the seriousness of your 13 year old DD swearing at you and your need to take some serious action.

It could be a peer thing, and therefore she may feel she is just expressing herself as her and her friends do, but you are not her friend. There are times and places.

She is expressing her anger and frustration but not being able to buy a bracelet and you do seem to have given her a valid explanation, does not warrant her swearing at you.

Punishment warranted, but also discussions about why she feels she can speak to you like this.

I feel awful for her. See this from her point of view. Her parents totally occupied with their jobs and her disabled sibling, who I’m sure she loves, but she’s constantly taking a backseat because you think she’s doing fine so you can leave her to it.

She’s probably swearing and being badly behaved because she’s desperate for some attention. And then you react with anger and she feels even worse.

Definitely don’t ground her. Encourage her to be around friends (if they’re a nice group) and try to carve out some time for her.

She’s 13 and full of raging hormones. And you have a “tricky” relationship with her, she probably thought you did it on purpose.

PPs have said that their parents would have “knocked them into next week”, which is a colloquialism, not an incitement to violence.

Do you really think people don't mean it when they say they would have been beaten by their parents? I was thrashed well into the mid 1990s, and I wasn't the only one.

The thing Is, from her point of view you promised her something and broke your promise. It's not surprising that she's really upset about that. On the basis that your own conduct isn't really something to be proud of, I'd cut her a lot of slack and try to sort this out amicably.

You promised her a bracelet.

You broke your promise.

Of course she's angry.

Your past trauma or shit relationship with your own mother is irrelevant. Get it together.

One of her friends is very sweary and I think it happens a lot in school.
I have said some bad things to her, I admit- lazy cow as her room is only cleaned if she is threatened with a screen ban.
I don't know how to get over that general dislike of her. It's so bad to write that, I know but I am being honest as I want help. And that is how I feel. I an so very sad that I feel that way. I am worse than my mother was to me.
My mum was just emotionally unavailable as my dad used to be violent towards her and she just kept her head down as had nowhere to go- this was in the 70s/ 80s.

Completely unhelpful post.

Maybe some family therapy would help with understanding each other's perspectives and develop more effective communication strategies.

Is she asleep now?

in the morning, apologise. Acknowledge her disappointment. Explain the solution that you had of paying the difference.

Do not punish. Firstly sounds like she has been punished enough secondly none of your punishments fit the crime.

order the bracelet.

at another time soon, calmly tell her that you understood she was angry but you would like her to try to manage her anger without swearing.

model the behaviour you would like to see in her.

it sounds like you have 13 years of abusive parenting to try and repair, it’s going to take a while.

research how to parent a traumatised child and self regulation techniques.

I think you could re-frame that; brief as it is, stern as it is, it encapsulates the feelings of a great many posts here. Kindly, you think it's unhelpful because it's saying things you don't want to hear. Your dislike of your daughter is apparent and you are fortunate that you can articulate it (my mother couldn't and spent her life like an over-wound spring), so you are able to at least process your feelings. However, whatever your feelings are to your daughter, it must never be forgotten as to how she came to be here - she isn't and will never be responsible for that. The way my mother used to go on at me for all I had done to annoy her just by existing, you'd think she'd had an immaculate conception.

What? That's insane. OP, your DD sounds a lot like me at your age. My parents tried coming the heavy with me. I cut them off for three years during my twenties. Don't be like my parents. No, she shouldn't have sworn, but you should honour your promises. I don't blame her for being annoyed. Also, listen to your husband. If he says you're always punishing her, that's not good. If she is a top student and well behaved outside the home, she is probably letting off some steam at home.

This in a nutshell.

No it’s honest and accurate. You need to get your shit together and fast! Or you will ultimately not have any relationship with her once she is an adult.

Frankly the more you post the more abusive you sound. If I was your DH I would be seriously considering whether you’re safe to be around your DD. You are unreasonably angry with her - it seems for just existing and being a teenager.

You are the adult. You let her down. And then you punished her for it. Own it. Apologies for it. And do better.

She’s a teenager, their rooms are messy. No need to call her names.

I find the way you talk about her really unsettling.

What do you like/love about her?

Not unhelpful, just what you don’t want to hear.

What you wanted was ideas for suitable punishment and to be vindicated.

YOU couldn’t find time to measure her wrist and punished her for that by refusing to honour your promise to her.

No, the swearing is not ok but rather than her poor behaviour, given your posts it smacks of utter frustration/desperation at your parenting, rather than being ungrateful.

I think this is often the case. Is she a perfectionist type? Tries way too hard everywhere else and then at home, where she feels safe her emotions are allowed out.

She shouldn't have sworn, but maybe this whole incident could be a chance for you and her to have a proper chat, and look at wider patterns. Is there any truth to what your husband is saying? Doesn't in anyway make you bad, you'll have noticed patterns in his relating to her too.

What actually happened regarding the ordering? Your daughter is probably already regretting swearing but a teenager is going to do it at some point.

Those saying their parents would have knocked them into next week, yeah mine would have but I also wouldn't have had all today's frustrations of price changed, monitoring screens, etc, I would have just been told I'm getting a bracelet and then I would have got it without disappointment.

OP, sit down with your daughter, say its time to both talk calmly and both look at what led to this. And sort out her getting her bracelet? She's 13, might not be ready for all the uncertainty of whether she's getting it or not, might need to be older before monitoring prices, though I think it's good you are getting her to think about those things.

My parents never beat me into submission and obedience but I still wouldn't have dreamed of speaking to them like that, and if I had there most certainly would have been consequences.

Honestly, some of the wet parenting these days! You aren't doing your kids any favours btw.

You let her down, and didn’t order the bracelet when you said you would.

Goure constantly threatening punishments, deciding between you whether you should limit her screen/friends/food (food is bizarre).

Youve clearly had a very dysfunctional relationship with your parents which is causing issues where you say you haven’t bonded with your daughter (she will feel this).

You have a disabled child who takes up most of your time and attention.

Talk to her. Tell her that it’s unacceptable to swear at her parents, or anyone for that matter.

Apologise that you missed the chance to order the bracelet at the cheaper price. Order it now, and let her enjoy it.

The more you punish, the less she has to lose, and the less motivation to behave nicely. The more you talk, bond, understand, and develop mutual respect, trust and love, the happier you’ll all be.

Lead by example. Give her the benefit of the doubt, that she was disappointed and angry. She could have handled it better, but she’s 13. You’re benefiting from counselling, and she’s meant to just navigate feelings and reactions on her own? Unfair.

It's hard when we also have a severely disabled child too

This is quite important OP, and may be the main reason for her behaviour. It’s not her fault, it’s not her siblings fault and it’s not your fault.

Children who have severely disabled siblings are sometimes called a “glass child”.

Glass children often feel left out, overlooked, not as important, as they get less time and attention from their parents.

She probably has a lot of built up resentment and jealousy. Thats hard for a 13 year old to express.

She thought she was getting a bracelet. She was probably really excited for it, she has something to feel important about. Suddenly, it was taken away from her. So she lashed out and used unacceptable language.

Obviously she needs to realise she can’t tell you or her dad to “fuck off” but I think you need to go a bit easy on her. As a “glass child” She needs more reassurance than the average child. She needs to know she’s just as important and loved and cared for as her sibling is.

Here are some interesting articles about Glass Children:

https://www.care.com/c/en-gb/what-is-a-glass-child-2/

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/glass-child

https://www.sibs.org.uk/glasschildren

My take on swearing is that it’s fine if it’s used as an expletive about something eg this is fucked up or even I’m fucking angry, but not ok when it is aimed at someone eg fuck off or fuck you

Tell her its fine to swear.

She is doing it in an attempt and shock and anger you.

Here I have always had the rule that swearing is fine as long as it is gramamtically correct, in context and not gratuitous. As a result the kids barely swear unless they are SERIOUSLY pissed off and even then ususally at a situation rather than a person.

I cannot stand in the kitchen and shout "OH FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!" when something has pissed me off and then punish a teen in the lounge for saying the same thing for the same reason. So I dont and it takes the power out of it.