DD13 told us to f*** off.

[GoldenRoses25]

I have name changed for this.
It's late - 10 15pm and she's upset because I won't order a Pandora bracelet as they put the price up from this morning. I told her it may be Black Friday but retailers still do dynamic pricing.

She had been given a £35 voucher but that doesn't cover the cost of a charm bracelet. I was going to pay the extra but I said we'd wait now.

I think she gets grounded and doesn't go out tomorrow with friends
DH thinks I'm always dangling punishments over her. I have a tricky relationship with her, that's true and I know I can be quite punitive. However I don't think such bad language can be ignored.

Any advice appreciated
Screen ban doesn't seem sufficient.

A bedroom which is a bit of a tip is quite typical for teenagers.
There are better ways of dealing with it than calling her a lazy cow.
The insulting (not to mention misogynistic) name-calling started with you, so it's not particularly surprising she insulted you in return.
(I understand these may have been separate occasions - I mean in general)
She will reflect back to you your own behaviour towards her.
In that sense, we all model behaviour for our children.
Sometimes it's really hard because teenagers can be very very trying and I do appreciate how your relationship with your own mother is part of this for you.

Had you said you would buy it yesterday?

It does sound very unhealthy. Calling her a lazy cow, threatening her, not liking her... she will feel all of that and telling you to fuck off feels fairly measured considering.

Do you ever praise her or tell her you're proud / you love her / you appreciate how good she is at something?

Lets just hope you either don't have kids or the ones you do have haven't been fucked up by your parenting 'skills'.

Not unhelpful at all. Its completely honest and blunt which is how kids these days think and feel.

Did you apologise for not ordering it in time when you said you would. And by how much the charm go up?

It wrong to swear, but they all do it now and who knows how to to it.

That you believe it's insane that a child would be punished for swearing at their parent says more about you than me tbh

The scenarios you've outlined contrast, but are certainly not the only options - there's a spectrum of ways of handling it. And an escalation ladder - one doesn't need to start at the top, or bottom.

If the latter attitude is the preferred approach to a child swearing at you, then yeah that's pretty pathetic inferior parenting in my view. But I appreciate everyone has different styles.

I feel really sorry for the poor girl.

From what’s been written here her mother doesn’t like her and is punishing her for behaving like a baby when she was a baby. She’s at the bottom of everyone’s pile and 5 minutes couldn’t be found to measure her wrist. It’s no wonder she’s lashing out.

My mother was/is very like the OP. I’m very low contact with her now, for the sake of my own sanity.

Oh, and @GoldenRoses25 all the bracelets at Pandora are reduced today. Please get her wrist measured and order her one.

I agree. Tell her she can have something, build her up to take it away and knock her down, and bonus, when she reacts badly you get to punish her further.

I had a mom like this. I knew she disliked me, she was so angry about her own life and kids are a great outlet for anger (as we've seen on this thread lots of PPs enjoying talking about physically abusing their children). You can take their possessions, limit their food, verbally abuse them... you couldnt get away with it in any other relationship but it's fine with children apparently.

Children are hardwired to want to be loved by their parents. It wasn't about a bracelet, it was that after years of understanding her mother disliked her and resented her presence (and she DOES know) she thought "wow mom is doing something nice for me, she's taken an interest in something important to me", but she was let down and punished for reacting to it.

If she can't react outwardly to her mother mistreating her, she will internalise the abuse and think maybe she deserves it, maybe she really is unlovable. Even her own mother who is supposed to love her unconditionally hates her. That is when eating disorders, self harm, suicidal ideation, drugs and alcohol begin. She will also be so desperate for love and affection she'll take it wherever she can find it, normally from older boys and men. Especially if she can stay at their house and avoid going home where she's barely tolerated.

Thank you so much for all the posts. I have read every single one of them and there is a lot to think about.
I don't have time to respond properly as I'm off to start a shift soon.

i do know all this as have children who have just passed through high school and are at university with amazing mental health support too.

i also work in education with children in early years so no lectures needed to me,

however swearing at your parent is disrespectful and needs nipped in the bud.

i see many teenagers who have been left to their own devices, swearing at parents and strangers, disrespecting others and all because their parents had no boundaries.

I don’t expect to be told to fuck off from my children and they would have been grounded in our house, I hate how every negative child’s behaviour is put down to poor mental health.

this gentle parenting is total nonsense where children have no boundaries, I see it every day in my work place, children kicking and hitting parents who then spout “ oh I understand you are upset, let’s hug and talk about it”, no just tell the child that their behaviour is not acceptable and their will be consequences for said behaviour!

Pupils say this on a regular basis at school. I get very upset and have even been called the C word. I just feel parents are not doing enough to teach respect and manners.

I AM NOT AN ADVOCATE OF GENTLE PARENTING

That's permissive parenting, not gentle parenting.

Gentle parenting is implementing boundaries and consequences in a logical way that respects your and your child's autonomy in such a way that doesn't rely on authoritarian approaches like shouting, punitive unrelated consequences, and smacking. Permissive parenting is letting your kid do what they want.

I just feel so bad for this girl. A mum that literally says she dislikes her, a disabled sibling who mum prefers and takes up all her parents time and the extra stress of ill grandparents. Who’s looking after disabled sibling whilst parents are working? Dd does a lot i bet. Op its been 12 years since your dd was a baby, it cant be just because she was a slightly difficult one. i think this fuck off may have been a long time coming

So, explain to me implementing boundaries and consequences in a logical way ?

Well I may have shouted at my children and they may have had consequences but I certainly never smacked them and they have both grown up to be well rounded , respectful and clever individuals.

and i forgot, its like op tries to hide that she dislikes her dd, she actively calls her names! Op the person who had intolerable and rude behaviour is you

Did i say you had smacked your children? No. Those are examples of authoritarian parenting.

Logical consequences would be things that makes sense. For example if a child breaks something, they no longer have that item. Gentle parenting means the child might then have to earn the money to replace the item, or make amends in some other way without the parent bending over backwards to make it ok for the child. They get boundaries and support at the same time. Permissive parenting - the parent just replaces the item and the child learns nothing. And authoritarian parenting dictates shit like removing other toys, privileges that have nothing to do with the broken toy such as grounding, taking away food (!?) or just good old fashioned silent treatment, shouting and/or hitting.

This is very sad. Why do you feel so angry towards her?

she needs love, not punishment. She needs to be seen by you. Heard by you.

you have obviously discussed whether you love her with your counsellor. You were worried you did not? Do you think you love her?

It’s either a joke about child abuse which is in poor taste, or it is an accurate admission of the abuse they suffered as a child. It’s not a colloquialism. No one I have ever met has said it wasn’t actually hit/punched by their parent for that particular transgression.

It’s not a colloquialism

Exactly.

No offence but that is bullshit. It’s kids that are neglected/abused at home or bullied in school that are terrors at school. Read some actual studies on juvenile delinquency before spouting absolute nonsense.

My DD is 15 now…
I would recommend all sleeping on it and then in the morning going in and sitting on the edge of her bed and talking to her, get your feelings across without being combative … let her know that it upsets you when she uses that language and you don’t think it’s respectful. Tell her you’re happy to pay £X’s for the bracelet and that’s the limit, BUT if she wants to help around the house and do chores to earn money then you’re happy to help her save up for it … maybe have a conversation about how many hours you’d have to work to pay for something like that…. I remember being told as a kid that money doesn’t grow on trees 😂

No it’s not a joke, it’s an old term …

like ‘I’ll give you something to cry for in a minute’
or
‘I’ll give you a clip round the ear’
or
’if you don’t behave you won’t be able to sit down for a week’ (on account of having a sore backside after being smacked!)

parents used to threaten their kids with violence … it very much WAS the done thing.. my mum was subjected to physical punishments… it wasn’t the norm but it also wasn’t rare….. and people knew about it and felt that ‘what happened behind closed doors stayed behind closed doors’…. There was no reporting parents to social services back in the 50’s/60’s..

Well, i guess you are correct if the 'abuse and neglect' you talk of constitute allowing your kids to grow up as entitled brats without boundaries, getting away with bad behaviour and never being told 'no'.

What period of time are you speaking of? Growing up in the 80s and 90s as I did, children being hit by parents was very much a normal thing in the city where I lived. Seeing a child being smacked by a parent in a shop would never have raised an eyebrow.