DD13 told us to f*** off.

[GoldenRoses25]

I have name changed for this.
It's late - 10 15pm and she's upset because I won't order a Pandora bracelet as they put the price up from this morning. I told her it may be Black Friday but retailers still do dynamic pricing.

She had been given a £35 voucher but that doesn't cover the cost of a charm bracelet. I was going to pay the extra but I said we'd wait now.

I think she gets grounded and doesn't go out tomorrow with friends
DH thinks I'm always dangling punishments over her. I have a tricky relationship with her, that's true and I know I can be quite punitive. However I don't think such bad language can be ignored.

Any advice appreciated
Screen ban doesn't seem sufficient.

Yes and it’s absolutely baffling how parents are allowed to make mistakes but people expect exceptional levels of restraint and self control from an under developed teenage brain 🙄.

🙄 They weren’t difficult for me. They were difficult for my children. Talk about jumping to conclusions.

op Says she has a punitive attitude to her Dd. That will affect her relationship with her, meaning her Dd won’t confide in her.

regardless, she had admitted that when frustrated she swears at people (calling other drivers twats). So she can’t then complain that her dd swears when frustrated imho. That is the behaviour she is modelling.

Exactly. Absolutely zero compassion. You’d think many parents don’t even like their kids.

And do you want your relationship with her to be like your relationship with your parents? Because if that's the yardstick you're measuring against, you have to have an eye on the outcome. You want her to be grateful for her 'nice life' just because you see her as having a better childhood than you, but that's a low bar to set yourself.

She was understandably upset about something important to her (whether you agree that it should be or not) - was your reaction sympathetic or dismissive of her feelings? Did you reassure her that you'd work together to sort it out, or reprimand her for expressing her disappointment? How would you have reacted if the roles were reversed? I think you might have more control over this situation than you think, but it's not by punishing her.

Behaviour is communication. She is telling you something is not right. Please try and find a way to understand what is truly going on without reaching for punishment.

op

have a good nights sleep and tomorrow will be brighter.
have a big hug and try and mend fences. You’re the parent, show the behaviour you want to see.

You think she has no idea how nice a life she has?

You just said her grandparents are ill and her sibling is severely disabled and her parents are working all the time. Maybe she feels constantly dismissed because you’re so busy doing everything else she doesn’t get much of a look in as a good kid with great grades who behaves well at school. All she wanted was a bracelet but you were too busy to even do that for her (in her mind). She likely feels like she’s at the very bottom of your to do list all the time. That might feel unfair but she’s only 13 so it’s probably how she feels. Ignored, forgotten about, and then when you do interact with her it’s lots of punishments…

Talk to her. You’re looking at her as some ungrateful shit instead of as a teen child who is also going through those things with you and is feeling something more than just ‘I want a bracelet’.

Biggest load of I've ever heard on here and that's putting it politely.

I'll use this line in my next performance review with my line manager.

I don't subscribe to this gentle parent notion that children can exercise all sorts of bad behaviours without consequence - that's not how life works. Swear at your teacher, you'll no doubt get detention (punished).

I am 100% sure you are not the perfect employee and your line manager gives you some allowances for error. Even Jesus made errors.

@Outside9 the difference is you and your LM are adults and have fully formed adult brains which can regulate emotions. You have learned the social cues of behaviour and practiced them many times

and I am not a gentle parent. I am an authoritative one. Look it up, you might find something useful there.

it is a daft comparison.

I think tomorrow spend some time with her, apologise to her, show interest in the charm bracelet, and offer to give her a lift to see her friends. She’ll really benefit from some mum love. Plus she’ll learn that we apologise rather than hold grudges.

I don't care if my daughter heard me cussing out a random driver on the road. She'll never allowed use profanity against her parents.

That's asinine logic

Based on this ridiculous logic children can commit the most extreme crimes without punishment because...? Please. Just stop.

Gentle parent all you like. I do not subscribe.

I don’t think my kids ever would. Not because they fear punishment. It’s just not what we do in our house. Kids just model their parents behaviour.

Nice life she has a disabled sibling who takes up all her parents time and a difficult/complicated bond with her mother so she reacted when she thought her mother was going to do something nice for her and didn’t and got frustrated and is now being threatened

@GoldenRoses25 what do you want from the relationship with your daughter because it all sounds negative. Teenagers who behave well at school with others don’t tell their parents to F off without cause and you can definitely see that here the negativity gets attention

do you want a relationship and a proper bond or do you want to win

So you let her down and then said you would wait for the price to go down but she didn’t hear before flying off the handle…

As a daughter of an abusive nasty narcissistic mother, one who was terrified of the vicious cycle I can tell you the one thing that I’ve learnt and is the most important thing to me is I always say sorry when I’ve fucked up to my children ALWAYS! Even if it’s just a slight fuck up.

I can easily see this playing out with my own 13yo dd, after she has calmed down I’d be asking her to come and see you and apologise for messing up, you left it too late the price has gone up but as it’s your mistake you will cover that expense. But going forward you won’t accept language like that, it’s fine for things to get heated at times but treating each other with respect is extremely important. I’d calmly ask dose she think it’s ok to speak to anyone like that let alone her parent and work from there. I wouldn’t let the punishment slide but I’d come up with a joint answer your both happy with. I’d also not get into a fight, if it dose walk away and resume when it’s calm again.

id also make sure to speak to my DH before had, have him in on the conversation and be on the same side.

Having no role modle a difficult pregnancy and hard time with your baby is no excuse, your an adult now, you step up and be that adult, it’s your job to make things better not have constant battles, if you don’t your dd will be the one seeking therapy for a toxic relationship with her mother in a few years.

Personally I don't really care the reasons my children wouldn't, whether it's because they fear punishment or just have sense. It would be implicitly intolerable.

And unless you homeschool, you'll soon learn your children won't be modelling behaviour based solely on you.

Same here I would have still been rebounding off the moon just for even saying that word at home. Completely unacceptable behaviour. From anyone, friend, family or stranger

OP, my delightful DD turned into a complete horror about half way through year 7.

She was rude, entitled, swore at me, called me names, slammed doors, just awful. Perfect in school etc, just at home and particularly with me, she was a horror.

I didn’t handle it well. I flew of the handle every time. I even washed her mouth out with a bar of soap once! She still reminds me of that and lets me know that was abuse.

Once in year 9 something shifted between both of us. I realised that shouting at her and punishing her wasn’t helping and just making everything worse. And she grew up a bit and was able to regulate her behaviour better.

I do think that me picking my battles and not punishing every misdemeanour helped. Choosing not to react when she was baiting me with foul language and name calling. I chose to walk away and then check in with her to see if she’s ok once she had calmed down.

She is a much older teen now and we often talk and laugh about how hideous she was back then. She wouldn’t dream of swearing at me now. Out of her choice and respect for me, not out of fear of punishment.

I have a teenage daughter!

Personally I think any parent is setting themselves up for failure if they do one thing themselves (swear in frustration) and then expect their child, let alone teenager, not to think that is acceptable behaviour and do the same! I also agree that none of us are perfect. And if we do say something in frustration, it can be addressed when everyone is calm. No need for punishment either way

I had a tough relationship with my mum and it can be really hard to escape but it’s no excuse for continuing the cycle. For both of your sake you need to connect, you say she has a nice life but amount of stuff can fill the hole a disconnected parent leaves.

Different cultures and different values as a previous poster said. Swearing quite normal and acceptable to me, the swearing itself wouldn’t bother me but the manner and intent would. Would you be less angry if she said ‘get lost’ or similar?
If you had promised to order the bracelet and didn’t then it’s understandable she was upset.

And there is the missing piece of the puzzle.
She is pushed out by her sibling's needs, Her childhood is anything but normal. She is frustrated, ignored and unheard, of course she acts up. You need to be investing in her a bit more and understanding her rather than punishing her. And no, saying F off is not acceptable. But try and learn a bit about her and try putting her first for a change.

It isn't acceptable that she told you to fuck off, but I think you need to acknowledge your part in this @GoldenRoses25

You delayed measuring her wrist, then missed out on the deal and she couldn't get the thing she really wanted. It isn't an excuse for her behaviour but it is a reason for her anger.

You're expecting a 13 year old to think in a more mature way than she can. You think she has a nice life - and perhaps materially, she does. But her parents are preoccupied looking after ill grandparents and a disabled sibling. When she does interact with you, it's fraught. From her perspective, this incident may reinforce to her that she is not a priority for you. Of course it's tough splitting yourself into so many pieces to care for people, and you are probably exhausted and fraying. But she isn't mature enough at 13 to empathize with you in the way you think she should. And you don't have time to talk things through with her, so you end up shouting and threatening.

I wouldn't be punishing her, but I'd be insisting you need to have a talk about what happened. You may also need to do some modelling of the behaviour you want from her by apologising for taking too long to do this with her and missing the discount. Yes, even if you think your reasons for delaying it were justified because you had things to do that in your mind were more important. If you want more grown up behaviour from her, you need to be a grown up yourself. Try and step outside your own frame of reference and enter hers.