No annual leave left during school holiday and no childcare

[ExcitingTimes2023]

Hi!

I was hoping someone could advise on what they do in this situation.

I have 2 children, a 18 month old and a 3 year old. My eldest is an august baby and she goes to school this September. The annual leave calender for this coming year opened a couple of weeks ago, I went to book some time off to cover some (not all) of the school holidays. I understand it has to be fair so I was hoping to book a couple of weeks and my partner we do the same. And we could request alternate shifts the remaining weeks to ensure one of us are home with the children (both shift workers).

However already there is no annual leave during the school holidays left so I’m not sure what we are going to do for childcare. Like I said we could request alternate shifts but I’m not sure our departments would honour that every single school holiday week, and it would mean we spend no time together as a family. I understand it has to be fair and I wasn’t expecting to have all the time off during the holidays but to get zero weeks off during my child’s first 6 months of school just seams a bit unfair. I spoke to my senior who was sympathetic but couldn’t help.

now I know there are holiday clubs and when my child is a bit older I’m sure she would manage but she is very shy and reserved at the moment and very nervous in new settings and hates places which was really noisy, so I’m not keen to use these until she is a little more confident in herself. I also have a younger child to drop off at nursery so logistics would be a nightmare to get to work on time. What other options are available childcare wise during the holidays? or am I just going to have to come to terms with alternate shifts and no quality family time during holidays?

Im just feeling a bit gutted as my first child starting school is overwhelming as it is without having to worry about this. If she was one of these confident children that just gets on with everyone I wouldn’t be worrying so much but I just know my daughter! Next year I’m literally going to be stood at the annual leave folder the second it opens to get a good few weeks booked!

Not that it matters as everyone is entitled to book their annual leave when suits them, but at least half of the school holiday leave has been booked by people with no children or people who’s children have fled the nest so I guess that adds to why I feel so deflated. but I’m trying to remind myself that I don’t get a say when or why other people need to use their leave. Trying to stay impartial is hard though.

If they changed the 2 week block booking rule with no notice and also whilst you were away then I would be speaking to them for sure. Any changes like this should have prior notice, just like if they implemented a period where no one can take time off. It’s worth a conversation and I would slip in Unpaid Patental leave to care for dependants too, they may see changing things last minute will affect them which they won’t want and possibly ask people if they aren’t going away, if they could amend their leave. When booking leave fills up quickly, a lot of people just book random weeks here and there just to make sure they’ve got something in the diary.

@ExcitingTimes2023 not sure if this will help, but you do have two children under 5, so if I was you I would speak to your employers to see if your request for the two weeks you need can be accommodated.
https://workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/flexible-working-a-guide-for-employees/
It is unfair for people to snipe at you regarding non parents and empty nesters as you made it very clear that everyone was entitled to their annual leave and when they want to take it. I would pay no mind to them. When I have managed teams of people with a variety of needs, then yes around these school holiday times as a business you have to be a bit more flexible and when there are inflexible periods during these times you look at who was prioritized previously to make it fair. I wish you luck 🤞 x

My thoughts too. I do have college and school age kids. But my eldest will be off to Uni soon and I would hope I could still get time off in school holidays as that's when they will have time off. Just because a child has 'flown the nest' as the OP put, doesn't mean we stop being parents and want to spend time with them.
Also, like the poster here says, people enjoy summer time regardless of kids. They have friends and family too.
This really gets me, especially when it comes to Christmas holidays and those with 'young children' feel more entitled to time off at Christmas. Because, no-one else has family, right?🙄

Maybe consider raising a grievance at work because you weren’t treated equally?

Please just ignore the negative comments, just don't reply to them, it's pointless. You asked for advice and clearly pointed out you didn't feel you were entitled to book your holiday over anyone else.

My advice is to ask around and if you can't get all the days you need then someone may be willing to swap a few days, if not the week. Alternatively I'd personally go off sick. My children mean the world to me, and if I need to be with them, and I can't do it fairly, then I'll do it unfairly.

@selffellatingouroborosofhate if you care to read the original post again you can clearly see I stated that I understand everyone is entitled to book their leave as, when and how they wish to. It is their well earned annual leave and I do not begrudge anyone their leave when it suits them. I am allowed to feel that the way things have ran this year are slightly unfair, and no matter how unreasonable, I am allowed to feel a little upset for myself. I do not understand why people are thinking that I’m implying my wants are more important than my colleagues, it’s just not the case. This was nearly a post for an anonymous rant and for some very helpful suggestions of what options to consider for the next 6 months. Which many posters have helpfully provided.

I’m sorry that some people are being unhelpful and …..
Parenting is hard and a massive learning curve.
Remember OP this is not your problem to solve alone. Your H has equal responsibility and holidays to utilise for childcare.
I know I’m stating the obvious but sometimes we are in mama bear mode so much we forget the load needs to be shared x
Sending best wishes, it’s not easy and parents should support each other not bully x x

Honestly OP don’t feel bad and ignore the twats. You live and learn as you say. I’m sure you’ll get in early next year or your work should at least make sure you get a chance to apply. Until you have to take school holidays it’s understandable you might not fully realise how hard it would be to get hols at that time. As I said in my earlier post I get mine in as soon as I can in my current work, based on experience with previous workplaces but I do know some people
have missed out sometimes

OP, you're getting a hard time on this thread. But are you actually going to raise this with your manager/HR and say that you tried really hard to be on the ball with this, but were caught on the hop by the system being changed without any warning, and ask whether there's any way you can be accommodated?

Posting on Mumsnet will do nothing except invite a pile on, which isn't helpful to you.

What are people like, honestly?

-Check for basic etiquette; is your comment kind+helpful+necessary.

-If you don't like the OP response to your comment, move on. She is in a tough place and asking for advice. This isn't an invitation for keyboard warriors with chips on their shoulders to escalate their own agendas.

Move on.

Sorry alleged 'grown ups' need reminding of such social norms and niceties.

OP ignore the negheads and judgemetalmists, sounds as though you're doing your best in a difficult situation.

I have yet to come across anyone who gave toxic responses who shouldn't be doing more work on themselves rather than passing on their bitterness to others.

Hi OP, the workplace system doesn’t seem fair at all. We take it in turns at work to makes sure that if you miss out one year, you don’t the following. Perhaps you could suggest this to your manager or in the work suggestion scheme as a family friendly policy.

Exactly. Why bring it up at all in the original post if it wasn’t a dig??

@MissScarletInTheBallroom

ah thanks. Sorry I should have updated. I spoke to one of the seniors yesterday while I was at work. He has said he is going to have a look at the leave calender to see if any of the permanent night shift staff have booked leave during the holidays
and due to the circumstances that I didn’t get to book time that they might be able to let me have 1 or 2 weeks off. I’m not holding my breath as it would mean too many staff are booked off but it could be something.
We have been supposed to be going to an online booking system instead of paper but it’s not ready yet. So I’m presuming it’s been a free for all as they where expecting to be online but had to switch last minute. So hopefully next year it will be different. If not I’ll make sure I’m there the day it opens or ask one of my kind colleagues to pop my name down.
No matter what happens I do feel a lot more positive about the situation, just reading how others have dealt with this is the past has been so useful!! X

No advice op but it is absolutely rubbish. It's a broken system. Firstly there is more holidays to cover than both parents even get annual leave.

One of my children has additional needs and there isn't any appropriate childcare for him. The holiday camps are from 10am to 1pm or a range of unhelpful not a full working day times. Not to mention mostly sports so If your child isn't in to sports it's not much help. Childminders are usually very booked up. My 10 year old absolutely doesn't want to go to a nursery.

I can only work very part time and term time only. Something really needs to change.

Unequal to whom?

Glad one of the management team is listening to you and will see what can be done

@MyrtlethePurpleTurtle
Not given the same opportunity to book annual leave as other members of staff.
Maybe a grievance could address this.

Fingers crossed 🤞 the manager sorts something for you.

You know things like this really piss me off when people suggest shorter school holidays. It would just make it harder for people to get time of with their kids. And make holiday prices more expensive, both in the UK and going abroad.

Firstly I'd say check with the school she's going to and ask for their school holidays plan and if they already know, when the inset days will be. If it's an academy they can set their own holidays and many don't go with the standard. Plus each areas can vary, my neices school has two weeks in may for example, many schools round near me have 2 weeks in October.
After this, presuming that there are no weeks that are free, ask a colleague nicely (who hasn't got children?) if they would mind swapping, especially if they have booked all the school holidays for example, or at least swapping say a Monday to Wednesday or Wednesday to Friday so you get a few days together.
Lastly for this year, think about when your child turns 5. They're not compulsory school age until the term after their 5th birthday. So you may be able to take them out for a few days to get a family break and know you won't get fined at least. In reception what they learn is very much play and experience based, which is akin to what she would learn on holiday.

So yes I know it’s been a few months so just thought I would post an update of how I got on. I spoke to senior staff and they couldn’t facilitate any annual leave on this calendar year during the school holidays. Which is fair enough, lessons learned and will just have to be a bit more ‘cut throat’ next year and hound them about when the holiday calendar opens so I can get my 2 weeks in early.

Luckily I’m a shift worker so I put in requests to work opposite shifts to my partner so we can easily cover all the days of all the holidays. And this request was agreed. So as the day off/shift requests have opened I have made sure I put my shift requests down as soon as they opened for each month. I inset days, holidays, half days where they finish early, you name it… all planned for, All requested and approved by managers. Problem solved… or so your would think.

Two issues have already cropt up. Firstly, despite me being told I could not have any annual leave during any of the school holidays, I noticed a colleague has had a week approved during the upcoming October half term, despite these two weeks being fully booked since the holiday calender opened. No one has cancelled. No one has left. Those weeks are now just overbooked.

Secondly my approved days off during the next holiday were changed. When I asked why they had changed they said that a colleague doesn’t have childcare during half term. I said neither do I. That’s why I’m working opposite shifts to my partner and those shifts were requested and approved. They then said maybe someone will swap with you. I said no you will have to change it back and the other person will have to find someone to swap as my shifts where already authorised weeks ago…. As soon as the shifts request for that month opened.

so yeah. Basically I feel like I’m fighting a loosing battle here. Up until now I felt well liked and appreciated in my role. I get on with everyone, I work hard, swap and cover other people shifts all the time. But now I feel almost like what I’m a doing wrong for these double standards? X

I think it's time to look for another job.

Not sure why the op is getting such a hard time

It's shit op, it really is. There's very little provision for childcare in the summer hols.

Would there be any chance you can speak to a colleague who may be willing to switch a week with you??

Just seen your update op

As a pp said, time to find another job

It’s really hard to, we are expected to work like we are not parents, and parent like we don’t work.

Yes, I would look for another job. They're not being fair.