No annual leave left during school holiday and no childcare

[ExcitingTimes2023]

Hi!

I was hoping someone could advise on what they do in this situation.

I have 2 children, a 18 month old and a 3 year old. My eldest is an august baby and she goes to school this September. The annual leave calender for this coming year opened a couple of weeks ago, I went to book some time off to cover some (not all) of the school holidays. I understand it has to be fair so I was hoping to book a couple of weeks and my partner we do the same. And we could request alternate shifts the remaining weeks to ensure one of us are home with the children (both shift workers).

However already there is no annual leave during the school holidays left so I’m not sure what we are going to do for childcare. Like I said we could request alternate shifts but I’m not sure our departments would honour that every single school holiday week, and it would mean we spend no time together as a family. I understand it has to be fair and I wasn’t expecting to have all the time off during the holidays but to get zero weeks off during my child’s first 6 months of school just seams a bit unfair. I spoke to my senior who was sympathetic but couldn’t help.

now I know there are holiday clubs and when my child is a bit older I’m sure she would manage but she is very shy and reserved at the moment and very nervous in new settings and hates places which was really noisy, so I’m not keen to use these until she is a little more confident in herself. I also have a younger child to drop off at nursery so logistics would be a nightmare to get to work on time. What other options are available childcare wise during the holidays? or am I just going to have to come to terms with alternate shifts and no quality family time during holidays?

Im just feeling a bit gutted as my first child starting school is overwhelming as it is without having to worry about this. If she was one of these confident children that just gets on with everyone I wouldn’t be worrying so much but I just know my daughter! Next year I’m literally going to be stood at the annual leave folder the second it opens to get a good few weeks booked!

Not that it matters as everyone is entitled to book their annual leave when suits them, but at least half of the school holiday leave has been booked by people with no children or people who’s children have fled the nest so I guess that adds to why I feel so deflated. but I’m trying to remind myself that I don’t get a say when or why other people need to use their leave. Trying to stay impartial is hard though.

I don’t understand working parents who work and don’t see wraparound care/holiday club as a necessity 🤯 just book it, your child will quickly settle in and won’t be ‘shy and reserved’ for long.
I have colleagues who expect to always book annual leave across the holidays, relying on those of us who actually make provisions for childcare to cover them - or who try to ‘work’ with their children present and do fuck all.

That's really unfair and a sign of bad management.
Each team I've worked in we've been asked to put in requests for leave over school holidays, with a deadline. The manager then looks at all requests together and tries to be as fair as possible.
One team, asked us to do this for the whole year, we were asked to also say which 2 weeks in the year were the highest priority, these 2 weeks were decided first.
We didn't always get all of the leave we wanted but got most of it, and it was fair.
Talk to your manager and explain the situation. They may not be able to change leave already approved but may be able to offer something.

@Julieju1 honestly this is similar to how mine has been every year. But for some reason this year has been just put your name down on the calender. I will work it out between me and my partner. But I will deffo not be return for mumsnet for advise in the future! 😂 x

@Itsnotallaboutyoulikeyouthink if you had read my post you would see we where hoping on only book a few weeks each and then the rest we would work alternate shifts between us to cover the 7 days. I was my no means expecting to take all the school holidays as that wouldnt be fair for my collegues, or for our annual leave to cover all the holiday. I’m not a fucking imbecile. I just wasn’t expecting to get zero annual leave during school holidays.

@Gottogetoutofthisplace again. See above comment. I’m not expecting to be able to take all the school holidays. I’m not expecting colleagues to bend and the knee to my wishes. Far from it. But I was hoping to have least get 2 weeks. You live and learn.

I’d be asking for a conversation with your manager. I can see you’re not asking for priority. But to allow booking to be a free for all from an opening day when some staff aren’t in and so can’t try and book what they need seems incredibly unfair and poorly thought through.

This! Can apply for up to 4 weeks in one year

When my daughter was small enough to need childcare I used to start planning this around a year in advance…I would be in the holiday booking system at work the day the week I wanted was available (this used to be 12 months to the day so often meant I had to go in daily and book each day as it became available).

You will need to use holiday clubs this time and plan better next year.

And how do they pay the bills?

Op is absolutely crap. It’s really difficult but you just need to search for clubs/ childminders anything suitable to get your through as this will the way it is going to be until school years are over.

You'll be surprised how resilient your child will be after starting school. It's with alternate shift, holiday clubs or asking people to swap holiday with you I'm afraid.

By not having to pay for childcare! It’s expensive and if it falls through- child unwell, minder unwell or takes leave, it’s a nightmare to sort at short notice. My children hated clubs - unless you go with siblings or friends it’s can be miserable and tiring. It’s a big ask of a young child for 6 weeks. It’s also important family time. If it was me i’d be raising a grievance at the change of process and poor communication as pp have suggested. I would also consider leaving- ie line up my next job and then give notice.

We had similar in my work, and I did have to argue for a better system ( all leave requests for holidays looked at together and allocated by manger for fairness) and it has made such a difference to team morale. It also meant non parents who wanted extended leave or unusual pattern can be accommodated as well. We have a reputation as a great team to work with now.

Maybe save up in advance to pay the bills?

It’s no secret that this occurs. Expecting others to forego leave for one’s convenience instead of planning for and saving for something that comes up annually isn’t a very realistic scenario.

Well said.

You know what. Iv actually cried last night before bed, and this morning while I was speaking to my senior at work and it’s mainly down to the horrible comments, for posters making it seam like I haven’t been planning for this school holidays, that I’m entitled in some way or saying my colleges don’t deserve leave. Which just isn’t the case! The cards just didn’t fall on my table this time and that’s fine. I will make other arrangements. It’s no big deal. Helpful posters who have made suggestions for me and been sympathetic have made me feel so much more positive. I can muddle through the first 6 months of school and just make sure I’m front of the queue to book 2 measly weeks off!!

To those who have been horrible, negative, gone out of their way to criticise… then I’m basically no longer interested in what you have to say and wanted to just say that you and your snippy comments can fuck right off. Enjoy your miserable lives seen as your happiness seams to come from putting others down. Ot maybe you need the feel to put others down to make yourselves feel better about you own failures. Cheers. X

@ExcitingTimes2023 Did you speak to your manager and get any clarity on why it's been done differently this year? Can anything be done to accommodate you? It does seem very unfair that they changed the system without warning, especially when you asked several times when the calendar would open.

Sorry you've had such horrible comments OP. I've also worked where the system with annual leave is the same, although it's now moved to a computer system accessible from home. Hope you can find a workable solution for you and your family. You're not a failure and have not shown any attitude of thinking people with children should be prioritised above those without. Some people are reading too far into things. Take care, please don't let these people get to you.

OP for this year I would apply for parental leave. You have an entitlement to that. Ok you will take a hit financially but if say you apply for 2 weeks and your husband 2 thats most of summer covered.
going forward you will need to find out in advance exactly when leave bookings open and apply early that same day for the year. You will have to be exceptionally organised in advance and sit down with your Husband and plan a year in advance.
For people saying ‘other people without children want time off too’ well yes of course but leave allocation should be fair for all people and being a parent to young children brings with it some very specific and challenging issues for the majority of working parents. We have not caught up with many other countries who recognise the effort and contributions parents make and support them with appropriate childcare options.

The employer can determine when parental leave is taken.

Employers cannot refuse or completely cancel parental leave. They can postpone it if it's going to cause problems at work, for example if there's an important deadline. They can postpone it for up to 6 months after the date the employee originally asked for.

My kids are grown up now but I remember the anxiety about trying to cover holidays. One memorable year I was rota'd to work every single public holiday bar one. Not fun at all.

I agree with PP- I'd ask management why the system changed this year - and if it could be changed back -as it sounds like the previous system was fairer.

Sorry to hear that but I guess it’s a lesson to get your annual leave requests in as soon as possible, if I’ve understood part of the problem correctly? You will need to do your best and alternate with hubby even if it means you don’t have time together as a family.

I would use a childminder. It's not as overwhelming as a nursery or holiday club and is in a homely setting so might suit your child better.

My eldest started school (reception) in Sept 2023 and was 4 and a half and I was faced with a tricky issue with the school holidays. My partner is self employed so loses money when he takes time off but also I couldn’t cover it all. I work 3 days a week and had roughly 5 working weeks holiday so had a huge gap with no annual leave and hadn’t a clue what to do. A holiday club was recommended to me and while I felt awful about the idea of him being shoved in a holiday club for weeks on end during the summer holidays (and other holidays) I soo realised that it was my only real stable option. Family could cover the odd day but nothing was ever set in stone. My son was upset when we first viewed the holiday club, but I asked him to try it and if he really didn’t like it, I would find an alternative option. He soon settled, and it’s made life easier for us and he has a great time there. I am a bit gutted when friends mention their children are being looked after by family, or them and their partner are managing to split it all between but that’s life unfortunately.
I have the last two weeks of the summer holidays off and so does my partner and that’s when we manage to go on holiday and spend time together as a family. I have a younger son (3) who is currently in private nursery but when he starts reception, he will also have to attend holiday club with my eldest.
My eldest also has to go to a childminder before and after school on my working days which will be 4 days per week soon, so I will only ever get to take him to school one day a week, which is rubbish but in this currant climate, most families need two working parents to make things work and I’ve just come to terms with that!

With regards to the holidays, I just make sure when I do have time off with my children, we do lots of nice things, go to different places and make it memorable!
I also use my tax free childcare account to help with the cost of the clubs!

Apologies if someone has already suggested this, but is there scope to raise this with HR? Was there previously a written policy on how holiday allocation was distributed? If there is anything in writing tied to your WSE/contract, then they have changed it without any notification, you may be able to challenge it?

I appreciate that is not always easy or possible though, and may open up more trouble than you have the time for!

I hope you manage to find some suitable childcare options to cover you this year x

Hi OP, please ignore all the negativity. I think unless you're a shift worker and a parent it's impossible to understand! I'm a shift worker too and everywhere I've worked has always had it announced on the work Whatsapp group that AL requests were out so those on a day off could text in their requests, so not a first come first served. Your work place sounds very unfair. I'm in ROI but I'm sure UK is similar, I have my little boy signed up to Lego camps and stretch and grow. Both of these are good for sensitive kiddies (my DS is also shy). You could also try chatting with colleagues who might be in a similar situation and mind each other's kids. Best of luck x

Could you afford to leave your job and find a new one after the hols are over? You only live once and your children are only small once..

You can't gripe about non-parents and empty nesters booking AL during school holidays and expect not to be challenged on that.