No annual leave left during school holiday and no childcare

[ExcitingTimes2023]

Hi!

I was hoping someone could advise on what they do in this situation.

I have 2 children, a 18 month old and a 3 year old. My eldest is an august baby and she goes to school this September. The annual leave calender for this coming year opened a couple of weeks ago, I went to book some time off to cover some (not all) of the school holidays. I understand it has to be fair so I was hoping to book a couple of weeks and my partner we do the same. And we could request alternate shifts the remaining weeks to ensure one of us are home with the children (both shift workers).

However already there is no annual leave during the school holidays left so I’m not sure what we are going to do for childcare. Like I said we could request alternate shifts but I’m not sure our departments would honour that every single school holiday week, and it would mean we spend no time together as a family. I understand it has to be fair and I wasn’t expecting to have all the time off during the holidays but to get zero weeks off during my child’s first 6 months of school just seams a bit unfair. I spoke to my senior who was sympathetic but couldn’t help.

now I know there are holiday clubs and when my child is a bit older I’m sure she would manage but she is very shy and reserved at the moment and very nervous in new settings and hates places which was really noisy, so I’m not keen to use these until she is a little more confident in herself. I also have a younger child to drop off at nursery so logistics would be a nightmare to get to work on time. What other options are available childcare wise during the holidays? or am I just going to have to come to terms with alternate shifts and no quality family time during holidays?

Im just feeling a bit gutted as my first child starting school is overwhelming as it is without having to worry about this. If she was one of these confident children that just gets on with everyone I wouldn’t be worrying so much but I just know my daughter! Next year I’m literally going to be stood at the annual leave folder the second it opens to get a good few weeks booked!

Not that it matters as everyone is entitled to book their annual leave when suits them, but at least half of the school holiday leave has been booked by people with no children or people who’s children have fled the nest so I guess that adds to why I feel so deflated. but I’m trying to remind myself that I don’t get a say when or why other people need to use their leave. Trying to stay impartial is hard though.

Totally agree that things like Christmas, Easter, fixed days in the year that are important to the majority of people should be alternated so everyone gets time with their family. My husband is a teacher, so I was that person without kids hoping for a bit of time off in the holidays. But I checked in with my colleagues about what they needed for childcare, as long as I got a couple of weeks in the hols I was happy, didn’t matter when it was. And as much as I’ve always lived Christmas, I understood how important and magical Christmas Eve is for parents of small children, so would give that up every year until I had my own kids.
OP isn’t talking about these special days anyway. She needs Oct half term and sone time over the Xmas break off for childcare.

I'm confused surely holidays everywhere are first come first served? How else would holidays be managed?

A PP answered that one, @Bababear987; apparently if popular dates are getting booked up they put holiday approvals on hold until they've gone into who needs what and why, and who can be flexible so that "everyone gets something"

IME this is usually code for putting those with children first while trying not to annoy everyone else, but of course this case may be different

When I approved holidays - the reason was irrelevant

Edited to add that on the whole I was the same, @Parker231, mainly because if "reasons" were requested the special pleading would be guaranteed to start and that too easily leads to resentment

I have used nursery when my little one was young, then for school holidays me and my husband stagger our annual leave and also frequently use holiday clubs...couldn't manage it otherwise as no family nearby to help.
It sounds like you need to sign them up to a childminder if you've run out of annual leave. Too young for clubs and also shy, so a childminder might be your best bet.

Have you got any HR dept? I would query why they changed the system without notice in a way that discriminated against parents and anyone who was out of the office when bookings opened

Re family holidays, I may get slated for this but whilst your daughter is 4 they can't fine you if you go away in term time

I have no suggestions for you, sorry, just wanted to say how much I feel for you.

If my employer changed the way they manage annual leave the way that yours has then I would be livid! How frustrating for you to think it would work as in previous years (where everyone was able to book an initial 2 weeks before others used up their leave) only to find out too late that the process had changed without notice.

OP, ignore the shitheads. I will never understand the non-parents who come on here to put the boot in to parents who dare to talk about their problems. I don't understand why they have nothing better to do and nowhere more appropriate to be.

Definitely ask around / post on social media. There will be students home for the holidays or people (like me) who work in a school but have adult children so have a lot of time on their hands during holidays.

Sympathies OP, it is hard juggling work and childcare.

Pure genius, bet she'd never have thought of that.

Not all of them will be non-parents.

At my work we plan out holiday seasons months in advance, we do a table with each person in it, put in everyone’s leave requests and check that we have enough cover over the summer & at Christmas. On days/weeks where there isn’t enough cover one or two people will not be able to take leave. The next holiday season they get priority so it’s fair overall. We look at the leave planner every few weeks at team meetings. We’re a team of 12 people, it works well and as far as I know everyone is happy with it.
My DCs went back to nursery for some holidays in KS1, which they really enjoyed. They also went to a childminder full days. When they were a bit older DS liked a sporty holiday club. DD wanted to keep going to the childminder as she was friends with the childminder’s kids and that worked well too. In the summer my DSis would usually have them for a few days, and so did my parents. Planning the summer holidays was like a military campaign every spring.

We have a nursery neaeby to ua that does a summer club. It goes from age 4 to 11 and is relatively cheap. Its run by the nursery staff and its not like a full on acticity camp, much more relaxed You could see if something similar is available.

I think your work system is very old fashioned as it relies on people to physically be there and form a queue in effect so as it’s shift work it makes it unfair on the people not working that day and any part time workers.

you can put in a flexible working request to work term time only. Means you would be unpaid though.

also for children under a certain age you can take unpaid parental leave but has to be done in a certain way.

look at all the policies at work around this.

also if your kid is under 5 and in reception then you can’t be fined for taking them away in school time as they aren’t of compulsory school age so you can’t get some family time away outside the school holidays.

I would join a union and then look at raising it as a concern that current method of allocating leave first come first served is unfair -eg those who are away, unwell etc can’t access the system
If response is a no ask for parental leave as you weren’t able to book leave as away and missed
If it’s a no then ask for flexible working - eg term time
then if employer still says no to all options then say you have no choice but to leave as effectively constructive dismissal as employer not working to find a mutually workable solution.

parents don’t have an automatic right to leave but if particular dates are popular eg Xmas then employers should have a system that is fair and not one that causes a bun fight.

at least half of the school holiday leave has been booked by people with no children

Summer schools run during the summer holidays and I pay over £600 each for the ones I attend. I can't ask the course providers to reschedule to accommodate your failure to plan childcare when I had to book and pay last year to get this year's course place.

This is weird, as a parent whose children are adults now I would NEVER book time off in the school holidays. Unless those without school age children are childminding for family, grannies etc?

Genuine question. This happens all the time. Can you think of a better way than 'first come, first served?

I would complain in writing about that change to the leave booking system and, if you work in the public sector, ask to see the Equality Impact Assessment for this policy change. You shouldn't be unable to book leave just because you are on holiday.

You'll have a mix of Aunties, Granny's, teachers and other school staff (everyone from janitors to secretaries) partners. Even friends of teachers who just want a friends holiday.

Nobody is diving in to take school holidays off for the hell of it.

That's v frustrating OP and I can understand your stress. I am limited to when I can use leave (never at half term and summer is tricky, so when dd1 started school, we got a childminder who covered the holidays we couldn't. DH was more flexible with his leave but even so, with all the school hols and inset days, we needed childcare that was more flexible than holiday clubs. DD1 is autistic and couldn't manage the holiday clubs until she was about 7, and even then, the suitable one was not full days and didn't run in all holidays. Overall the childminder was a godsend.

We had a 2y gap between the kids and this is what our childcare looked like (no family help, no flexible working or wfh). Dh worked ft, me 3 days a week, so the childcare was only for those 3 days.

both in private nursery until this
DD1 4yo - school with wraparound childminder, DD2 2yo- private nursery
DD1 5yo - school with wraparound childminder, DD2 3yo school nursery with wrapround childminder
DD1 6yo - school with wraparound childminder, DD2 4yo same as DD1

This was a few years ago (they are 11 and 13 now).

The main problem is that people haven't read your post properly. You clearly didn't say you wanted preferential treatment and explained why you were unable to book earlier. Don't let ignorant people make you feel bad.

@ExcitingTimes2023 Speak to your manager. Say you've been caught on the hop because the system changed without your knowledge and you were on annual leave when the booking system opened for the next year. Explain that you now have the school holidays to cover and you need to be able to take some leave during the school holidays. Ask what can be done to facilitate this.

There must be some flex in the system. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to cope if someone left or was ill.

Now you'll know from experience that you need to set a reminder in your calendar to book leave approximately five minutes after it all goes live.

I’m really sorry this has happened to you@ExcitingTimes2023
First come first served is a terrible way for annual leave to be approved. Really unfair on people not at work in those days, who are waiting for their DP to get holidays authorised, Childminders to give them their holiday dates etc. Sensible workplaces get people to submit requests for the really popular times like July/Aug, October, Easter, Christmas and then management look at it and make sure everyone gets something they’re requesting. In my workplace if too many people wanted October half term off they would look at who had it last year.

Definitely raise it as an issue with management otherwise you can end up with the same people getting everything they want every year because they go online the moment it opens and book everything!

So there are 15 slots per week for A/L with a staff size of roughly 115.
How does this work if 40 (for example) people all wanted school holidays off?

Fairly sure our HR would not uphold these complaints. Do the single parents get preference over the joint? How exactly does this fair way work?

We have a large international team who, when they travel, like to go for 5-6 weeks - again who has preference?

The 15 slots does flex for those who are then ill,on courses or mat leave etc.

How very dare people without minor-aged children want to go to Download, or Glastonbury, or a summer school?

Some of us want to have fun and sometimes that fun happens during the school holidays.