How much money do you need to earn to have kids?

[Anudawan]

I’ve always wanted a brood, I mean 3/4.

how much does one need to earn to facilitate this?

how much do you ‘need’ to earn for 2 kids, 3kids etc.

for me private school isn’t a priority, id save some money for them to go to uni, get them a 2nd hand car (not a banger but nothing too pricey) and a contribution towards a house deposit (nominal amount, as I do think it’s important to save and grind a bit for this type of stuff) I think largely house deposits would come from my inheritance.

we’d like a moderate lifestyle, shopped around holiday abroad, a UK holiday etc

mortgage around 1100

I’ve posted similar in aibu, largely by accident but post hasn’t got much traction

Me specifically, I have an inheritance that’s as good as guaranteed.

i also think 75k each is attainable in the next 5 yrs but I guess that depends if you think that’s a high earner or not

If you are hoping for family to help with childcare during school holidays, would they want to do that for 4 DC?

How much are you thinking about for uni costs?

Many DC are living at home longer, some even into their 30s. Would you want to share your house with 4 other adults (would you have space for them all)

What is this obsession these days with giving your children a house deposit?

Because unfortunately these days owning a home is better in terms of financial security. There is a lack of social housing & renting is often more expensive than paying a mortgage with little security. And if you live somewhere expensive even with a good income it's very hard to save a deposit. Also the bigger deposit the better the rates generally. We had 6 figure help to get on the ladder, in London we are not usual.

unusual!

You do know that it completely depends on what sort of lifestyle you’re after?

If they do loads of hobbies, you buy them the latest trainers, send them on lots of school trips, buy an expensive bigger car, go on holidays, spend lots at Christmas etc then yes, it will cost a lot. If you continue to live a sensible, modest life then no, it won’t.

I literally never thought about it when I had my children. You just live according to your means.

Oh I mean the deficit between the maintenance loan and what it means to live comfortably. Given the sheer cost of everything I think however more and more students will either stay home or go the apprenticeship route

Well we earn c£115,000 and we didn't feel we could afford a 3rd. We had a very clear idea of the lifestyle we wanted; mortgage is going up to £1700 for the sized house we wanted, we run 2 cars, we like to go abroad at least twice a year. Extra curriculars aren't too expensive and we don't do private school, but we do spend a fair chunk on birthdays, Christmas, in the school holidays etc.

But this is very much a choice based on the lifestyle we wanted. Obviously we could technically afford a 3rd or 4th, but I couldn't raise them how I wanted or live the life I want to live.

It always has been better in terms of financial security, but many can't afford it and their children manage ok.

I left home at 19, didn't buy a house until early 30s and left a marriage with nothing to show for it but half the equity in the house (despite having put down all the deposit). No parental help.

There are areas of the country with good job prospects that don't have London, or even SE prices. In many areas, 6-figures will buy an entire house rather than pay a deposit on something with a cripplingly high mortgage.

It's never been easy but it's harder now. My immigrant parents bought their home in a rough ish part of London on one salary. The area had gentrified and houses are millions.

There are areas of the country with good job prospects that don't have London, or even SE prices. In many areas, 6-figures will buy an entire house rather than pay a deposit on something with a cripplingly high mortgage.

I haven't claimed otherwise... I just replied to a post. The bank of mum & dad is real.

I only have one and tbh we don't have much money at all. Combined income of less than 30k. I buy a lot secondhand and I'd always have help with childcare so wouldn't need to worry about that. Would probably struggle to afford another though and obviously long term I'd want to be earning more than I currently do.

The bank of mum and dad is real, but I guess what I'm saying is that you are not signing your kids up to a life of destitution if parents can't afford to give them a house deposit, or pay all university costs etc. It's a nice, very privileged position to be in, but for many, is out of reach.

Sometimes MN expectations of what kids will have handed to them is completely out of kilter with what most parents can expect to provide and they are not the kinds of costs for many which make or break the decision on whether to have kids. There seems to be an awful lot of stealth boasting on MN with regards to, "we only earn £200k between us, we've only been able to give the DC £100k towards their first house and they are struggling at university on the £3k we give them each month" etc

There are so many factors. It depends what sort of lifestyle you want and what sort of life you want your kids to have. It depends what sort of outgoings you have and what your childcare costs will be. I went back to work part time after my first baby and took a huge hit to my salary, our household income is nowhere near £100k but we live comfortably and can afford holidays and house renovations and for the kids to do extra curricular activities but also our childcare costs are low and our mortgage repayments are very low compared to a lot of people. Minimal childcare costs and a low interest rate on the mortgage saves us hundreds and hundreds of pounds per month. We have no debts and nothing on finance. We have lots of money saved for our and the kids' future, from money I saved whilst working full time but also from family help. I've seen lots of people who earn a lot more say they struggle, it totally depends on your personal situation.

We have 4 DC, our gross household income over the past 20 years (when we went to 3 then 4 DC) has been between 65k-130k
When DC were small I ran my own business from home as second income which fitted (kind of!) round childcare so limited childcare costs other than nursery when age of 2.5 years then top up fees when funded hours kicked in (they went 3 days a week)
My career really took a hit.
Basically you need sufficient size house and car.
Then you need to be able to cover your bills and feed and clothe everyone.
Holidays can be cheaper end, uk caravan parks etc or just day trips.
There have been times when we really struggled, we were over the limit for claiming of child benefit etc
DC are expensive but you cut your cloth - your love, your time and a stable home life count for a lot.
Parenthood does involve sacrifice, very rarely can you have it all.
Start with one child and see how you go.

Been talking to a friend who runs data analysis looking at populations.

This is off topic but its this kind of thinking that is going to massively change the demographic make up of the west over the next 50 years.

The bank of mum and dad is real, but I guess what I'm saying is that you are not signing your kids up to a life of destitution if parents can't afford to give them a house deposit, or pay all university costs etc. It's a nice, very privileged position to be in, but for many, is out of reach.

I agree that it's not house deposits or destitution but certainly for my generation (millennial) the message of "don't have dc you can't afford" has been drummed in and there is more awareness about things like uni costs, house deposits, years of wage stagnation & the impact of wealth inequality. I think it's one reason birth rates have plummeted.

@Hyperion100 it already has. We have more over 65 yr olds than under 15 yr olds. Economically we are in for some very tough times with a shrinking workforce. Taxes & costs are only going one way.

I don't think this is really something you can put an accurate figure on. Most people who have kids just live within their means. I'm quite a good earner but I'm very glad I only have 1 child as she reaps the benefits of this. DD9 knows this too and most of her friends are constantly moaning about how they don't get treats or nice holidays, have to share bedrooms etc. An estimate monthly breakdown for my DD if I averaged it out would be:

£150 clothes and shoes (including uniform, coats, fancy dress etc)
£100 - food
£300 - day trips, treat days, random spend on crap from home bargains
£100 - Childminder
£75 - activities
£45 - going to birthday parties
£40 - pocket money
£200-300 - savings
£80 - pension
£150 - christmas
£75 - birthday presents and party

Plus 4-5k for an abroad holiday each year (2 adults, 1 kid) and around £1500 for a UK one. She'll be getting a new laptop this year too but not priced that up yet.

I also think people really underestimate wage stagnation & inflation.

50k today is the equivalent of 40k in 2020, 32k in 2010.

Yes...its a problem and we're not making an economically productive generation from looking at the data.

Big changes will also come in the ethnicity and religion categories as well as the balance for being able to afford kids and the cultural drive for "non westerners" to have many kids will tip the scales over time.

Unless we start being a ton more productive and start having more of our own kids we're in for big ol' changes.

I'm just grateful my parents are immigrants so dc have more options re moving abroad!

This might be miserly, but I wouldn’t fund first cars, deposits, weddings or uni in with long term budgeting for kids.

Not out of some spite that it wasn’t available in my younger years - I wouldn’t feel comfortable taking it from my parents, it’s not my money.

I appreciate some see the value in a “leg up,” but I don’t. Everything we have is earned, and I’d want to instil that in my kids too. You want it, pay for it.

Probably means that my “how much does it cost” is lower, because I wouldn’t be funding any adult life decisions!

@SleeplessInWherever do you have DC?

DS is currently at uni. He gets minimum loan. He works during the holidays to help fund term time and he lives quite frugally. So is reasonably self sufficient but we still pay for certain things and he lives at home for free during the very long holidays, so any money he earns is his.

But maintenance loan (even maximum amount) very rarely covers rent never mind anything else

Very much difficult to answer depending on a lot factors

We have 3. Youngest 8 months, then 2.5 year old and 7 year old. Most of our income is swallowed by 2 lots of nursery fees, the eldests wrap around at breakfast and after school club and then other extra curricular stuff. I assume it may flatline for a while post nursery until they hit teenage years

We are around 75k but our mortgage is low at £550pm (for now)

I’m not really sure why people always ask that, would whether I had kids change what I’d said? Not meaning to be funny, just don’t get why it’s asked so regularly!

1, disabled and unlikely to live independently at any stage, university even less likely.

I sort of get it with maintenance loans, because last I knew they were means tested based on household income so there’s a link between that and how much money we have. If parents are covering the shortfall because of how “high” their earnings are then fair enough.

I definitely wouldn’t pay tuition fees for example, or for nights out etc. I wouldn’t see anyone starve but spending money, beyond necessities, I wouldn’t cover. I’d expect that to be paid for by working around studying probably!

My uni loan was just under 3k and my student accommodation was £100 less for the yr. I had a job to help support myself but I still appreciated help I very much needed.