What are your views on smacking?

[DevilwearsPrada]

I was smacked as a child and I am of the view that it hasn't done me any harm. Before I had kids I was certain I wouldn't smack. When I had dd1 (5) I didn't smack her (PFB and all that) but I think if I had she would be more disciplined now. Hindsight and all that.

With dd2 (19 months) I wasn't going to smack either but now she's into toddlerdom and getting up to all sorts I find it's the only way I can stop her doing things. I nly lightly tap her on the bum a couple of times and she is wearing a nappy so won't really hurt. But the shock of it stops her being naughty. I do give her a warning before I do it. I tell her no but she just laughs and does it again. I have a 3 strike rule. With dd1 because I've never smacked her I don't intend to start now. I can reason with her and punish her with taking away things which is hard to do with a 19 month old. I intend to stop smacking dd2 when she reaches an age she'll understand punishment.

I don't really want to smack them both as they get older but I won't rule it out if they're terribly naughty.

What are your views? And how do you discipline your DC?

That is a bit of a blanket statement kittywise-how many is this survey based on!

Sorry-supposed to be a question mark.

And my experience shows me that smacking does nothing but teach children that there are circumstances in which it is OK to hit people. I do not think there are any circumstances where it's OK to hit people. I especiaially don't think there are any circumstances where it's OK for big people to hit little people.

I have the 'misfortune' to come from a family involved in this line of work I have therefore over my life met many, many professors, authors, psychiatrists etc etc.

It has always utterly amazed me when they do years of research, write papers bring out books that are venerated by students of psychiarty etc.

A vast majority of these 'experts' of mind sciences have really screwed up kids, divorces etc etc.
They are blind to what is going on beneath their noses, for them it's all about theory, surveys, research. Hypothesising about what would happen if....

A scary amount of these experts I have known have not been able in any way to do as they say.

I am not saying that bumperlicious will be so remiss and I am only giving a small sample from my limited experience. However it is experience of this that many people have never had. And my experience tells me to put no store in the fact that people are well read on a subject.

Now claire verity is a classic example. Look at all her theories,I'm sure she feels herself well read, informed and able to comment on how to treat babies.............

Actually I don't believe that is true Kitty, as an analyst in my job I believe that an objective opinion is sometimes just what you need to solve a problem, any kind of problem. Maybe it takes an objective observer to say "have you tried this instead?".

I certainly don't believe theory is meaningless. Time out, sticker charts, sleep training, whether you agree with these things or not they are all based on well documented behavioural principles. Or course, putting these things into practice is much harder, no-one is denying that, it's the "theory" behind smacking as a form of discipline that is the bone of contention on here.

Anyway, whether or not I am qualified to have an opinion, and whether or not psychologists are fucked up, is really irrelevant to this discussion.

Ah kitty - I have know so many in the field and there certainly are quite a few oddballs (my own bfather included - and a child therapist to boot - and I guess I could be called exccentric..)

But that doesn't mean that we should just toss out decades of research - research based on real living people, parents and children, not some abstract theoretical population from Mars.

Ah but the difference is CV didn't actually have many of the qualifications she purported to have

Sorry, I just got really riled by this whole 'expert' thing. The idea that someone is somehow better qualified to comment because they have read lots of book and written lots of papers.

Sorry if I offended you bumperlicious. I'd better bugger off and drink a beer
yes kitty's final paper on child rearing would simply be 'drink more beer'

it is certainly true to say that people are not drawn to their professions by chance and that some at least (most?) will have been wounded in a particular way. I believe this holds particularly true of the healing professions...talk to me about midwives!

but it isn't useful to over-generalise and i think if you're throwing out excellent theory that can help us to understand the development of children's minds and ability to form relationships based on some bad experiences with mental health professionals that's a real shame.

kittywise it would be just as true to say that parents' natural defensiveness of their own ways of doing things resulted in them being poorly placed to offer opinion!

Although sophable I personally would take advice from another experienced mother who had already struggled with a particular problem that I was going through ( that's why MN is so great surely?) than from someone who was giving me advice based on something they had read but had no experience of themslves.

To be fair to Bumper - I think that before a baby becomes a toddler, is precisely the time to make a choice as to whether you will smack or not. IME, if smacking is something you decide never to use, it is more likely that you will never smack.

As soon as you say, 'I'll wait and see' then I think you will probably find some situation which will press your buttons enough to use it!

i totally agree with that soapbox. it becomes an unwritten law if you decide it is so.

see kitty what you want is both: a mental health professional that is a parent!!!

and i kind of feel the same way about midwives and doulas etc....i think an important component of that knowledge needs to be experience!

I think having a basic idea about child development is a good idea. It might for example prevent parents from thinking a child is naughty/little shit/little sod/being difficult. Children do need to go through certain developmental stages and some of these stages can be particularly challenging. Personally I think the ages between 3-4 can be horrendous and my 6 year-old ds sometimes behaves like a teenager. I feel like I should be able to respond these challenges with something better than a smack. I think my children deserve better.

I also think it's very important to decide this issue before baby comes along. Personally, I definitely experience that kind of physical anger that could lead to some level of violence and only a totally non-negotiable committment not to cross that line contains it. If I had not thought so much about it and felt so strongly motivated - I'm sure I'd have smacked dd regularly. She's not especially difficult - but she is nearly 3 and stubborn as hell like so many toddlers. I have sympathy with those whose children are very challenging and they basically 'lose it'. Not because that is OK or excusable - but because I can so easily imagine how that can happen and can only hope I would not do the same.

I think it's simple. Hitting other people is wrong. It happens - but it's wrong.

Sorry, I didn't actually mean to come over all "well, I'm a psychologist..." but to be fair I have learnt some very basic behavioural rules that are very simple in theory, if not in practice, rules that if all parents had a little bit of training in they might see more effective results. It's amazing how many people don't realise simple things like praising good behaviour and ignoring bad behaviour, as evidence by the popularity of progs like Supernanny, who is basically spouting pop psychology.

Like Soapy (soapbox/sophable - are you the same person, you always seem to post together and I get confused ) said it's actually easier to make some of these decisions when you are in an objective state before having kids. DH and I talked about it a lot when we were studying and it gives us something to revert back to now. We all make decisions about the sort of parents we are going to be before we have children.

Anyway, tis true that many psychologist are a bit screwed up but usually will have had lots of therapy themselves as a requirement of their job.

Sorry, I didn't actually mean to come over all "well, I'm a psychologist..."

Don't worry, you didn't at all.

Sophable and I are most definitely not the same person but we do share similar views on many things (although not all - I seem to remember some interesting discussion with her DH one very late night)

oh god that was iraq wasn't it. he used to shout at the telly and nearly cry. and you know what? he was totally right.

he can be very obnoxious in an argument though.

You know - I cannot for the life of me remember what it was about - such is the beauty of MN!

Oh FGS to those posters who think I'm barbaric for smacking my toddler puuurrleeease . I tap her on the bum a couple of times (when wearing a nappy) and I'm barbaric. Jeez someone call social services because I don't sit my child down and talk and distract them out of every single fricking situation when they are naughty. Maybe I just happen to have other kids to deal with or dinner to cook and I don't have the time to spend sitting a child on the naughty step repeatedly for over 2 hours (which is torture IMO).

I was smacked frequently as a child as was my sister, this was in the 80's when you could discipline your child how you wanted to without the whole bloody country thinking they could do it better than you. You know what my sister and I grew up to be nice normal people who have great relationships with our parents. We've never been in trouble with the police or actually been violent with anyone. Shocking I know according to the majority on here we should be mass murdering husband and child beaters by now.

Before I get jumped on because I asked peoples' opinions, I wanted peoples' views on smacking I didn't expect to be called barbaric.

Not enough emoctions on this place.

DWP you are NOT barbaric. You carry on as you are and feel happy with yourself .
Sadly smacking threads ALWAYS go this way, although I must say that this one has been really very civilised