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Social services..

285 replies

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 19:05

apologise if this message is abit long.
I have 6 children, all aged between 12 and 6. My 8 year old son has always proved a little difficult for me to handle. His behaviour at home is really defiante. Everything is a chore, he doesn't get on well with his siblings because of his behaviour either. Alot of the time it sounds really silly but just things like he won't get dressed won't brush his teeth won't go in the bath without screaming, we take them on holiday or days out very regular and sometimes he won't join in. He poos all over my house, on the carpets, on teddy bears, wipes it on the curtains. He's pooed on my sofa. In 2021 he went through a stage of not eating, it was the time of covid and no doctor wanted to know they brushed it under the carpet because he was healthy. The school referred us to the social services who came out, did an assement on us and left.
His behaviour has got better over the years, sometimes he does revert back to his old ways. However the oast few months he has started the eating thing again, he steals food at school. The safe guardin teacher gives him spare and also he is allowed to go to her at school if he is hungry, which he has been doing every day. He then comes home and refuses to eat for me. He will pick at his tea, say it is spicy and then later on we find banana peels, crisp packets ect all hidden in his room. He steals money, he's stolen my wedding rings, car keys. Eventually he returns them or admits he has stolen them but this is something I have raised with the teachers and the safe guarding teacher and the senco teacher too.
In July I broke down at school and told the safe guarding teacher I was struggling as every day for a few weeks he has been very difficult. She made a plan with my child who when she asked why he doesn't eat at home he openly told her "I like to upset my mum" he had previously told other teachers this too and about his stealing.
I never heard anything after July. We had a great summer, we went on holiday, we did lots of days out and majority of the time my son joined in and really enjoyed the holidays with us. His eating wasn't brilliant but he wasn't poorly and he was eating enough for me to not be concerned about. However he is quite small for his age. He has been weighted and measured at school and always done back the perfect BMI. Iv mentioned to a few professionals before about his height all who have said "every child grows differently and as long as he is healthy" - he is never at the doctor & has about 3 days off school his whole life apart from when schools had bubbles ect in COVID.
However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go he was drying sayin he didn't want to see the teachers they keep asking him questions and he's upset by it, so I approached reception and asked to speak to the teacher in question. I wasn't nasty or anything I just wanted to clear things with her as we hadn't spoken since July really.
I was then asked to go into a room where 2 social workers were waiting for me, apparently they had attended my house twice that week... Once at half past 4 but we were out at football and once at half 8am but I was on the school run. She asked me a few questions and then about 15 minutes later the police turned up and arrested me for child neglect. The social worker was even gob smacked.
The accusations made against me by my son were that I dont feed him tea, I bath him in a cold bath (something I have never heard from anyone) and that I make him sleep on a sofa.
I was released on bail and so was my husband but as a result the children have gone into foster care.
It's been 3 weeks and 2 days, no social worker has shown me any reports. Iv seen my children once for an hour and a half. They mentioned on the second say they would apply for an interm court order but I haven't heard anything since. When I did see my children and the social worker she said to us all "this is just a temporary measure whilst the police do their investigations"
I have spoken to 2 of my children on the phone once. 2 of them twice.
My little boy who made these allegations has told us and the social worker he wants to come home but obviously now they have to take what he has said very serious.
He has had a medical at the hospital which said he had no marks broken bones or any signs of physical abuse. Nor has he made any allegations, yet the school have said they believe he is physically abused. They said he is quite small for his age. They took bloods and these came back he is slightly anemic so now on iron supplements. The report says he is happy, chatty, doesn't look unwell, his nails teeth clothes and hair are all in great condition.
I know everyone says it but we are genuinely a very nice family, absolutely noone we have spoken to can believe what has happened. everyone including the school compliment us on our kids appearance their manners.. they are around several other people like dance teachers, gymnastics teachers and football coaches, swimming instructors. Taekwondo instructors... All who have never raised a concern about any of my children.
Has anyone been in a similar situation to me?

OP posts:
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7
TheSnugHare · 19/10/2024 23:26

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 19/10/2024 23:21

Why are you derailing the thread asking pointless questions about the number of children since they've already been born? What do you gain by kicking someone when they're down?

I don’t think that’s what they’re doing but someone mentioned before that the 8 year old might be acting out for attention and the parents might not realise they haven’t been meeting their emotional needs. I can see how that’s possible but I also think there’s SEN

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:26

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:18

Ok, so step back.
You were arrested and bailed, but not charged YET with any crime. I didn't quite make sense of what bail conditions were? Not to have contact with kids?!?
You have VOLUNTARILY signed s20.
If the above is correct, I would be onto lawyer on Monday, asking them to revoke s20 and if your/husband bail conditions prohibit you from contact is to accommodate your kids at relatives, but make sure you adhere to bail conditions. You'd be in whole other world of pain if they find you have breached them.

In all the honesty, you are making it way too easy for them to keep your kids indefinitely.
Make SS fight. At the moment you aren't even under s47!
YOU have parental authority, you can remove them. LA will then have to apply to court but only if suspect there is a 'significant harm'.

What is your lawyer saying? Month is such a long time?!

childlawadvice.org.uk/information-pages/section-20-accomodation/

Yes they said when I go back to answer bail that is when the case would be dropped, I would be charged or they would extend bail depending on wether they have finished their investigations. Is this correct/standard?
My bail conditions say I am to have no unsupervised contact with any child u18.

That is what my solicitor has done. I had a solicitor who was waiting on a court date because the social said they were taken us for a court order ... We waited a week, I the found a better solicitor who has given them till the 23rd to supply me with all my reports, get regular contact and has said if not said I will revoke my consent on the 23rd.

I know they can only remove my kids if they believe there's significant harm but if the police are involved iv been advised they can remove them anyway?

OP posts:
Ihopeithinkiknow · 19/10/2024 23:26

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marmadukedoggo · 19/10/2024 23:31

You REALLY need a shit hot lawyer. Put it on a credit card if necessary. Let's just say I know from experience that not all lawyers are created equal. This has gone far too long with nothing of any substance being done. Your newer lawyer sounds better, by at least setting a date of the 23rd) but I'd still hire the absolute best ( also need them to advise the best barrister)
Good luck.
You must be distraught.

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:33

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:26

Yes they said when I go back to answer bail that is when the case would be dropped, I would be charged or they would extend bail depending on wether they have finished their investigations. Is this correct/standard?
My bail conditions say I am to have no unsupervised contact with any child u18.

That is what my solicitor has done. I had a solicitor who was waiting on a court date because the social said they were taken us for a court order ... We waited a week, I the found a better solicitor who has given them till the 23rd to supply me with all my reports, get regular contact and has said if not said I will revoke my consent on the 23rd.

I know they can only remove my kids if they believe there's significant harm but if the police are involved iv been advised they can remove them anyway?

Police can only hold them for 24hrs (but will double check with hisband). The bail thing can go on for up to 12 months, which isn't great (again double checking).
Which LA is this and is your lawyer based outside that area (very important bit). Are they legal aid or private?

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:33

FriendlyNeighbourhoodAccountant · 19/10/2024 23:21

Why are you derailing the thread asking pointless questions about the number of children since they've already been born? What do you gain by kicking someone when they're down?

With all due respect my children are fine. My children are incredibly bright, they have fantastic attendance at school. They have travelled all over. They have had so many experiences in life. They want for nothing. They attend so many regular out of school activities. We are always praised for them and the way we have brought them up.

It is one child out of 6 who has behavioural issues. It isn't constant either. Please don't come at me when you know absolutely nothing about our family life or the way my children are raised.

There has been no cause for concern about my children in the last 12 And a half years apart from this allegation my child has said at school one day and the new safe guard has referred it.

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:35

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:33

Police can only hold them for 24hrs (but will double check with hisband). The bail thing can go on for up to 12 months, which isn't great (again double checking).
Which LA is this and is your lawyer based outside that area (very important bit). Are they legal aid or private?

And if you can't have unsupervised contact, it means they allowed you have supervised one? I.e if they lived at relatives, technically you could be visiting under supervision.
Did SS not ask if there are any relatives that could have them? This is a bit weird.

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:38

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:33

Police can only hold them for 24hrs (but will double check with hisband). The bail thing can go on for up to 12 months, which isn't great (again double checking).
Which LA is this and is your lawyer based outside that area (very important bit). Are they legal aid or private?

Yer I think they said 72 hours but I meant the social fan now hold the ln foster care because of my bail conditions.

It's Doncaster and why is it best to have a lawyer outside the area? Might sound like a silly question but iv had no dealings with police or solicitors before.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:40

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:35

And if you can't have unsupervised contact, it means they allowed you have supervised one? I.e if they lived at relatives, technically you could be visiting under supervision.
Did SS not ask if there are any relatives that could have them? This is a bit weird.

Yes they asked and I gave them names and contacts for quite a few family and friend members. However they haven't contacted anyone, something which is on the deadline day for.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:41

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What a disgusting comment.

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:41

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:38

Yer I think they said 72 hours but I meant the social fan now hold the ln foster care because of my bail conditions.

It's Doncaster and why is it best to have a lawyer outside the area? Might sound like a silly question but iv had no dealings with police or solicitors before.

Local solicitors quote often act for LA on other cases. So conflict there.
They are only in foster care bc they didn't ask if you have relatives they can accommodate them in, correct?

leia24 · 19/10/2024 23:46

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:41

Local solicitors quote often act for LA on other cases. So conflict there.
They are only in foster care bc they didn't ask if you have relatives they can accommodate them in, correct?

OP I'm not sure you should be listening. Local Authorities have a legal department and employ their own solicitors. Sometimes the LA instruct a barrister who might represent a guardian or a parent at different points in different cases but that's because they work in Chambers and act for whoever they're instructed by.
I've been represented by and cross examined on behalf of a parent by the same barrister in different cases and it doesn't matter because they're not aligned to me or the LA just the interests of the party paying them... that's how they get business. By winning for their instructing solicitor.
When the kids were removed police did that under police powers it sounds like (PPO) because you were arrested but since then you signed s20. The talk of section 47 is irrelevant that's just a child protection investigation and doesn't remove children.

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:47

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:41

Local solicitors quote often act for LA on other cases. So conflict there.
They are only in foster care bc they didn't ask if you have relatives they can accommodate them in, correct?

Yer that's correct

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:50

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:40

Yes they asked and I gave them names and contacts for quite a few family and friend members. However they haven't contacted anyone, something which is on the deadline day for.

Ok, so SS haven't done what they meant to and have now moved on.
Sounds like your solicitor is working towards the deadline of sorts, bug it doesn't seem like much of a rush to them.
How you holding on? I have three and wouldn't be able to hold it together like you do.
I'm not a lawyer but have at least 1, possibly 3 kids who are autistic and learned pretty much all law there is to know for SEN/SS in the last 6 years.
Main thing is that you get them back asap and resume frequent contact.

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:51

leia24 · 19/10/2024 23:46

OP I'm not sure you should be listening. Local Authorities have a legal department and employ their own solicitors. Sometimes the LA instruct a barrister who might represent a guardian or a parent at different points in different cases but that's because they work in Chambers and act for whoever they're instructed by.
I've been represented by and cross examined on behalf of a parent by the same barrister in different cases and it doesn't matter because they're not aligned to me or the LA just the interests of the party paying them... that's how they get business. By winning for their instructing solicitor.
When the kids were removed police did that under police powers it sounds like (PPO) because you were arrested but since then you signed s20. The talk of section 47 is irrelevant that's just a child protection investigation and doesn't remove children.

Thankyou for that advice.

Yes I think that's what happened. They were removed because I was arrested but now iv signed a section 20 but because of my bail conditions I don't really have a choice as I can't have them home whilst they're in place.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:55

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:50

Ok, so SS haven't done what they meant to and have now moved on.
Sounds like your solicitor is working towards the deadline of sorts, bug it doesn't seem like much of a rush to them.
How you holding on? I have three and wouldn't be able to hold it together like you do.
I'm not a lawyer but have at least 1, possibly 3 kids who are autistic and learned pretty much all law there is to know for SEN/SS in the last 6 years.
Main thing is that you get them back asap and resume frequent contact.

I know I feel like the social are just hiding behind police and making out there's nothing they can do.
Then I feel like solicitors are just like "we will give them till so and so" and I feel like I have no power. Everyone I talk too tells me different information and none of it is the same. I'm hoping this new solicitor gets me regular contact and all my reports back ect and hoping I find out more at the review this week.

Bless you, it's hard when they additional needs/behavioural issues isn't it, don't get me wrong it's not constant with my 8 year old he can go weeks behaving like an angel then all of a sudden something clicks and he's back to being naughty.

Thanks for your advice/kind words.

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 23:59

leia24 · 19/10/2024 23:46

OP I'm not sure you should be listening. Local Authorities have a legal department and employ their own solicitors. Sometimes the LA instruct a barrister who might represent a guardian or a parent at different points in different cases but that's because they work in Chambers and act for whoever they're instructed by.
I've been represented by and cross examined on behalf of a parent by the same barrister in different cases and it doesn't matter because they're not aligned to me or the LA just the interests of the party paying them... that's how they get business. By winning for their instructing solicitor.
When the kids were removed police did that under police powers it sounds like (PPO) because you were arrested but since then you signed s20. The talk of section 47 is irrelevant that's just a child protection investigation and doesn't remove children.

Some do, not all. Even those that do quite often outsource work, for exaple SEN tribunals to external law firms, in my area certainly.

Social services..
Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 00:07

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 23:55

I know I feel like the social are just hiding behind police and making out there's nothing they can do.
Then I feel like solicitors are just like "we will give them till so and so" and I feel like I have no power. Everyone I talk too tells me different information and none of it is the same. I'm hoping this new solicitor gets me regular contact and all my reports back ect and hoping I find out more at the review this week.

Bless you, it's hard when they additional needs/behavioural issues isn't it, don't get me wrong it's not constant with my 8 year old he can go weeks behaving like an angel then all of a sudden something clicks and he's back to being naughty.

Thanks for your advice/kind words.

As he PP above said and you also, initially they got removed under PPO (72 hrs) and then you signed s20.
I think all that needs to happen is that SS are happy for kids to be accomodated at your relatives, with you only agreeing to see them under supervision and revoking s20.
It's a case of left hand not knowing what right hand is doing.

Apolitia · 20/10/2024 00:10

AgainandagainandagainSS · 19/10/2024 21:28

Of course you don’t. But the others have done nothing wrong, are causing you no issue or threat and deserve to be at home with you. He is the fly in the ointment who can’t conform and is tearing the family apart and putting you and your husband at serious risk. Lies like that ruin lives and split families up - as you are finding out.

One of the worst things I’ve ever read on MN. Calling a child ‘a fly in the ointment’. It makes me feel sick.

murasaki · 20/10/2024 00:11

Apolitia · 20/10/2024 00:10

One of the worst things I’ve ever read on MN. Calling a child ‘a fly in the ointment’. It makes me feel sick.

Agree, that's a revolting thing to say.

I do think he has possible SEN which needs looking at but to say that about an 8 year old?????

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 00:12

Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 00:07

As he PP above said and you also, initially they got removed under PPO (72 hrs) and then you signed s20.
I think all that needs to happen is that SS are happy for kids to be accomodated at your relatives, with you only agreeing to see them under supervision and revoking s20.
It's a case of left hand not knowing what right hand is doing.

Yes and just need to ride it out with the police... But so worried how long it can take. I know they have heavy work loads but to say they're back logged when it's what's keeping my family apart seems so unfair

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 00:14

murasaki · 20/10/2024 00:11

Agree, that's a revolting thing to say.

I do think he has possible SEN which needs looking at but to say that about an 8 year old?????

I have seen/read many disgusting comments on these pages. Some people really so not have anything nice to say at all.

OP posts:
murasaki · 20/10/2024 00:17

I imagine your 8 year old is also very confused and sad. I agree that them being with a relative, together if that can be done and you having supervised visits until it's sorted is the best idea. It's not fair on the kids to be split up.

Social workers have a shit time though they get blamed for doing nothing, and also for interventions. I couldn't do it.

I hope you get a resolution soon.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 00:20

murasaki · 20/10/2024 00:17

I imagine your 8 year old is also very confused and sad. I agree that them being with a relative, together if that can be done and you having supervised visits until it's sorted is the best idea. It's not fair on the kids to be split up.

Social workers have a shit time though they get blamed for doing nothing, and also for interventions. I couldn't do it.

I hope you get a resolution soon.

Well all my children including my 6 year old son have been told exactly what's going on and that they can't come home because mum and dad are in "trouble" with the police. They know I'm on bail.. which is something I wouldn't of actually shared with them.

When I had my first contact with my children my 8 year old was distraught and begged us to take him home, he kept apologising to us but the social kept telling him he has nothing to be sorry, which if course I don't blame him. He's 8 and he obviously didn't know what was going to happen did he.

OP posts:
PMAmostofthetime · 20/10/2024 00:20

@Peonies007 72hours under child protection or until the earliest court date SS can get