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Social services..

285 replies

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 19:05

apologise if this message is abit long.
I have 6 children, all aged between 12 and 6. My 8 year old son has always proved a little difficult for me to handle. His behaviour at home is really defiante. Everything is a chore, he doesn't get on well with his siblings because of his behaviour either. Alot of the time it sounds really silly but just things like he won't get dressed won't brush his teeth won't go in the bath without screaming, we take them on holiday or days out very regular and sometimes he won't join in. He poos all over my house, on the carpets, on teddy bears, wipes it on the curtains. He's pooed on my sofa. In 2021 he went through a stage of not eating, it was the time of covid and no doctor wanted to know they brushed it under the carpet because he was healthy. The school referred us to the social services who came out, did an assement on us and left.
His behaviour has got better over the years, sometimes he does revert back to his old ways. However the oast few months he has started the eating thing again, he steals food at school. The safe guardin teacher gives him spare and also he is allowed to go to her at school if he is hungry, which he has been doing every day. He then comes home and refuses to eat for me. He will pick at his tea, say it is spicy and then later on we find banana peels, crisp packets ect all hidden in his room. He steals money, he's stolen my wedding rings, car keys. Eventually he returns them or admits he has stolen them but this is something I have raised with the teachers and the safe guarding teacher and the senco teacher too.
In July I broke down at school and told the safe guarding teacher I was struggling as every day for a few weeks he has been very difficult. She made a plan with my child who when she asked why he doesn't eat at home he openly told her "I like to upset my mum" he had previously told other teachers this too and about his stealing.
I never heard anything after July. We had a great summer, we went on holiday, we did lots of days out and majority of the time my son joined in and really enjoyed the holidays with us. His eating wasn't brilliant but he wasn't poorly and he was eating enough for me to not be concerned about. However he is quite small for his age. He has been weighted and measured at school and always done back the perfect BMI. Iv mentioned to a few professionals before about his height all who have said "every child grows differently and as long as he is healthy" - he is never at the doctor & has about 3 days off school his whole life apart from when schools had bubbles ect in COVID.
However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go he was drying sayin he didn't want to see the teachers they keep asking him questions and he's upset by it, so I approached reception and asked to speak to the teacher in question. I wasn't nasty or anything I just wanted to clear things with her as we hadn't spoken since July really.
I was then asked to go into a room where 2 social workers were waiting for me, apparently they had attended my house twice that week... Once at half past 4 but we were out at football and once at half 8am but I was on the school run. She asked me a few questions and then about 15 minutes later the police turned up and arrested me for child neglect. The social worker was even gob smacked.
The accusations made against me by my son were that I dont feed him tea, I bath him in a cold bath (something I have never heard from anyone) and that I make him sleep on a sofa.
I was released on bail and so was my husband but as a result the children have gone into foster care.
It's been 3 weeks and 2 days, no social worker has shown me any reports. Iv seen my children once for an hour and a half. They mentioned on the second say they would apply for an interm court order but I haven't heard anything since. When I did see my children and the social worker she said to us all "this is just a temporary measure whilst the police do their investigations"
I have spoken to 2 of my children on the phone once. 2 of them twice.
My little boy who made these allegations has told us and the social worker he wants to come home but obviously now they have to take what he has said very serious.
He has had a medical at the hospital which said he had no marks broken bones or any signs of physical abuse. Nor has he made any allegations, yet the school have said they believe he is physically abused. They said he is quite small for his age. They took bloods and these came back he is slightly anemic so now on iron supplements. The report says he is happy, chatty, doesn't look unwell, his nails teeth clothes and hair are all in great condition.
I know everyone says it but we are genuinely a very nice family, absolutely noone we have spoken to can believe what has happened. everyone including the school compliment us on our kids appearance their manners.. they are around several other people like dance teachers, gymnastics teachers and football coaches, swimming instructors. Taekwondo instructors... All who have never raised a concern about any of my children.
Has anyone been in a similar situation to me?

OP posts:
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Soontobe60 · 19/10/2024 21:50

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 21:25

I wouldn't want this either...

Like I don't want my child who accused us to stay in foster care either. But I have asked why if there's no other concerns for my children they can't return home and they help me with my child behaviour. Wether that be at home or whilst he remains in foster care first.

Obviously they will not allow any children to return home because you’re being investigated for abuse against your DS - they will also investigate your other children as it’s assumed that a parent who is abusing one child is likely abusing others in the home.
OP, you stated that your DS was pooing all over the house and smearing it everywhere. This is not the behaviour of a child who has no additional needs. It could be seen as a sign that they are being abused by someone. You have 6 children born within 6 years of each other. What are their ages? 6 children sounds very hard to cope with.

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 21:53

TheSnugHare · 19/10/2024 21:48

Take care of yourself. Could it be possible he is acting out because he has unmet needs you are unaware of. Mental health issues, possible SEN, trauma, etc etc.
he could be saying one thing like he has here but it could be him crying out for help about something else.
I have a relative where he was the odd one out like this but all his siblings were fine. Try and think if there’s anything

I have raised these concerns.
I have taken him to the doctor. I have rang children mental health teams. All of who say he doesn't meet criteria.

I have asked sens teacher at school. Doctors..

The same schools also told me and wrote reports to my doctor about my 12 year old who since leaving that school and attending secondary has since been to an occupational therapist, speech therapist.. the school are a let down.

OP posts:
AgainandagainandagainSS · 19/10/2024 21:53

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 21:31

Which is exactly what I have said.

I just find it surreal. How many kids can say something like my mum didn't give me tea or even my mum hits me ect...

There is no signs of abuse to my child for anyone to have an concerns. It's not as though he was dirty scruffy covered in bruises... It was literally just based on a comment he made.

He obviously has serious issues, caused by who knows what. He is trashing your house, has zero regard for you or his siblings, and is throwing out accusations which are ruining lives. 5 kids normal, one bad. So you must have done something right for the others to turn out ok.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Baital · 19/10/2024 21:54

Being arrested is quite unusual. That suggests it is a criminal case. Most of the cases where SS get involved (and remove children) don't reach the threshold of a criminal case.

A friend is a lawyer who acts for parents when SS are taking action (removing children from their parent/s). Most are accused of neglect that is damaging their child - but they aren't arrested, there aren't criminal charges.

What have you been charged with/arrested for?

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 21:59

LittleHangleton · 19/10/2024 21:49

If you're charged with neglect, have police been to look at your house?

It's hard to evidence child neglect at a criminal level. Sensitive question, which you can choose to ignore, do you drink or use drugs? Or live in acute poverty? All neglect cases I've dealt with as DSL have had one or more of these factors involved.

Yes the police came to look at my house. They reported to my criminal solicitor that there were no concerns. My house is very nicely decorated and im a clean freak so nothing is out of place, it's always very clean and tidy unless the children are causing chaos in the toy room .

There is honestly absolutely no substance use, my partner works on a railway and is regularly drug tested and I have never even tried a cigarette, I hate smoke and I wouldn't never take any drugs.

I drink occasionally like if I go out with friends ect but nothing heavy. I actually have a bottle of wine in the fridge my cousin brought when the kids were taken which is still unopened. We don't drink in the house unless it's Christmas ect and we go to family.

OP posts:
Liveheretoo · 19/10/2024 22:00

What was your involvement with social services in 2021 for? I do hope this gets sorted out quickly for you.

LittleHangleton · 19/10/2024 22:02

Had you told school you were going to home educate all the children?

When there are already child protection concerns, this would have been a huge red flag. I can see a scenario where a S20 was the best way to remove your right to EHE.

Im minded to think of Victoria Climbie, may she rest in peace.

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:04

Soontobe60 · 19/10/2024 21:50

Obviously they will not allow any children to return home because you’re being investigated for abuse against your DS - they will also investigate your other children as it’s assumed that a parent who is abusing one child is likely abusing others in the home.
OP, you stated that your DS was pooing all over the house and smearing it everywhere. This is not the behaviour of a child who has no additional needs. It could be seen as a sign that they are being abused by someone. You have 6 children born within 6 years of each other. What are their ages? 6 children sounds very hard to cope with.

Yer I understand that.
I know this about the pooing, I have contacted parent and support who have been out, I had a social worker involved in 2021. I have spoken to 2 safe guards at school. I have spoken to numerous teachers over the year and the doctor.

Absolutely noone says anything or does anything to help apart from say it is for attention because we have 6 children. I'm from a family of 6 myself I didn't do anything like that.

It isnt easy but it also it's hard. We cope. The children are very happy, attend regular out of school activities. Are all really intelligent. They're happy.

OP posts:
TheSnugHare · 19/10/2024 22:04

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 21:53

I have raised these concerns.
I have taken him to the doctor. I have rang children mental health teams. All of who say he doesn't meet criteria.

I have asked sens teacher at school. Doctors..

The same schools also told me and wrote reports to my doctor about my 12 year old who since leaving that school and attending secondary has since been to an occupational therapist, speech therapist.. the school are a let down.

Yeah that’s the thing these services tend to be like that and usually only assess children with really obvious needs who can’t mask their symptoms. I knew of a child like this a while ago who was well behaved at school but that was a mask and they also did the poo smearing thing and had behavioural issues at home. It was actually me! I had to get a private autism assessment in the end as they refused to refer me. I was diagnosed when I was 11, but that’s no reflection of the needs I had. I had a mix of high and low functioning symptoms. I don’t believe in the labels because it’s a big spectrum. It honestly sounds like SEN to me. Do you happen to remember what the criteria was?
if you haven’t already I would just start trying to gather all the evidence you have. Have you been phoning solicitors yet?

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:11

LittleHangleton · 19/10/2024 22:02

Had you told school you were going to home educate all the children?

When there are already child protection concerns, this would have been a huge red flag. I can see a scenario where a S20 was the best way to remove your right to EHE.

Im minded to think of Victoria Climbie, may she rest in peace.

No absolutely not.
I don't want to home school him at all never said I wanted too. He is very clever, he works above his age in every subject. He completes all homework and his reason ability is brilliant I would never jeopardise his schooling.
The day I was arrested I had told the reception that I wanted to speak to the safe guarding teacher because my son had told me she made him feel uncomfortable and kept takin him from class to ask questions. (Obviously it all came to light that this was because of what he been telling her which I didn't know about till later that day) But she wouldn't come and speak to me so I said I would take him home instead of leaving him crying. Which is why they rang the police because they thought he was under immediate risk because they thought I knew the social had been contacted which I didn't until they took me into a room and they were there.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:12

LittleHangleton · 19/10/2024 22:02

Had you told school you were going to home educate all the children?

When there are already child protection concerns, this would have been a huge red flag. I can see a scenario where a S20 was the best way to remove your right to EHE.

Im minded to think of Victoria Climbie, may she rest in peace.

Ps.

I absolutely do not want to home school six children. They are all thriving in school. And I would be absolutely useless!

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:14

Ps.

I absolutely do not want to home school six children. They are all thriving in school.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:18

Baital · 19/10/2024 21:54

Being arrested is quite unusual. That suggests it is a criminal case. Most of the cases where SS get involved (and remove children) don't reach the threshold of a criminal case.

A friend is a lawyer who acts for parents when SS are taking action (removing children from their parent/s). Most are accused of neglect that is damaging their child - but they aren't arrested, there aren't criminal charges.

What have you been charged with/arrested for?

Edited

And this is what I can't get my head around. The police arrested me and they removed my children before they had even met my kids or spoke to me. Like I know the police aren't going to come and talk to me before hand but we hadn't had a social worker working with us or anything.

I was arrest for child neglect. When I did my police interview the accusations were my son said I didnt feed him tea, bathed him in cold water and made him sleep on a sofa... All of which I think aren't enough to arrest and remove my kids?

OP posts:
UnsureAndUnsteady · 19/10/2024 22:19

I have PM’ed you. Please read as there is some specific advice on there

PubicZirconia · 19/10/2024 22:21

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:18

And this is what I can't get my head around. The police arrested me and they removed my children before they had even met my kids or spoke to me. Like I know the police aren't going to come and talk to me before hand but we hadn't had a social worker working with us or anything.

I was arrest for child neglect. When I did my police interview the accusations were my son said I didnt feed him tea, bathed him in cold water and made him sleep on a sofa... All of which I think aren't enough to arrest and remove my kids?

You mean surely..things you'd never do?

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:22

TheSnugHare · 19/10/2024 22:04

Yeah that’s the thing these services tend to be like that and usually only assess children with really obvious needs who can’t mask their symptoms. I knew of a child like this a while ago who was well behaved at school but that was a mask and they also did the poo smearing thing and had behavioural issues at home. It was actually me! I had to get a private autism assessment in the end as they refused to refer me. I was diagnosed when I was 11, but that’s no reflection of the needs I had. I had a mix of high and low functioning symptoms. I don’t believe in the labels because it’s a big spectrum. It honestly sounds like SEN to me. Do you happen to remember what the criteria was?
if you haven’t already I would just start trying to gather all the evidence you have. Have you been phoning solicitors yet?

Edited

It is so frustrating because as a mum you know but they don't help they say because he behaves everywhere else and at school he can't have issues. But he will slip.. my family never use to see it either but the more they were around him and the more he was comfortable he started showing his behaviour Infront of them. He's stolen from my family members, he's pooed everywhere when my aunty has babysat ect, but because school don't see it they don't care. Even though he has been caught stealing at school too!
He is being good as gold at foster carer, but he's showered in attention. As soon as it starts not foin his way or he feels comfortable enough he will start his typical behaviours.

Yer I have a solicitor, she is currently pushing for regular contact and for my children to stay with family members.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:25

PubicZirconia · 19/10/2024 22:21

You mean surely..things you'd never do?

Of course I would never do them. I purely meant that surely they wouldn't arrest me just because a child said them things and would actually need to come out ect..

Don't mix my words.

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 22:27

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 19:05

apologise if this message is abit long.
I have 6 children, all aged between 12 and 6. My 8 year old son has always proved a little difficult for me to handle. His behaviour at home is really defiante. Everything is a chore, he doesn't get on well with his siblings because of his behaviour either. Alot of the time it sounds really silly but just things like he won't get dressed won't brush his teeth won't go in the bath without screaming, we take them on holiday or days out very regular and sometimes he won't join in. He poos all over my house, on the carpets, on teddy bears, wipes it on the curtains. He's pooed on my sofa. In 2021 he went through a stage of not eating, it was the time of covid and no doctor wanted to know they brushed it under the carpet because he was healthy. The school referred us to the social services who came out, did an assement on us and left.
His behaviour has got better over the years, sometimes he does revert back to his old ways. However the oast few months he has started the eating thing again, he steals food at school. The safe guardin teacher gives him spare and also he is allowed to go to her at school if he is hungry, which he has been doing every day. He then comes home and refuses to eat for me. He will pick at his tea, say it is spicy and then later on we find banana peels, crisp packets ect all hidden in his room. He steals money, he's stolen my wedding rings, car keys. Eventually he returns them or admits he has stolen them but this is something I have raised with the teachers and the safe guarding teacher and the senco teacher too.
In July I broke down at school and told the safe guarding teacher I was struggling as every day for a few weeks he has been very difficult. She made a plan with my child who when she asked why he doesn't eat at home he openly told her "I like to upset my mum" he had previously told other teachers this too and about his stealing.
I never heard anything after July. We had a great summer, we went on holiday, we did lots of days out and majority of the time my son joined in and really enjoyed the holidays with us. His eating wasn't brilliant but he wasn't poorly and he was eating enough for me to not be concerned about. However he is quite small for his age. He has been weighted and measured at school and always done back the perfect BMI. Iv mentioned to a few professionals before about his height all who have said "every child grows differently and as long as he is healthy" - he is never at the doctor & has about 3 days off school his whole life apart from when schools had bubbles ect in COVID.
However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go he was drying sayin he didn't want to see the teachers they keep asking him questions and he's upset by it, so I approached reception and asked to speak to the teacher in question. I wasn't nasty or anything I just wanted to clear things with her as we hadn't spoken since July really.
I was then asked to go into a room where 2 social workers were waiting for me, apparently they had attended my house twice that week... Once at half past 4 but we were out at football and once at half 8am but I was on the school run. She asked me a few questions and then about 15 minutes later the police turned up and arrested me for child neglect. The social worker was even gob smacked.
The accusations made against me by my son were that I dont feed him tea, I bath him in a cold bath (something I have never heard from anyone) and that I make him sleep on a sofa.
I was released on bail and so was my husband but as a result the children have gone into foster care.
It's been 3 weeks and 2 days, no social worker has shown me any reports. Iv seen my children once for an hour and a half. They mentioned on the second say they would apply for an interm court order but I haven't heard anything since. When I did see my children and the social worker she said to us all "this is just a temporary measure whilst the police do their investigations"
I have spoken to 2 of my children on the phone once. 2 of them twice.
My little boy who made these allegations has told us and the social worker he wants to come home but obviously now they have to take what he has said very serious.
He has had a medical at the hospital which said he had no marks broken bones or any signs of physical abuse. Nor has he made any allegations, yet the school have said they believe he is physically abused. They said he is quite small for his age. They took bloods and these came back he is slightly anemic so now on iron supplements. The report says he is happy, chatty, doesn't look unwell, his nails teeth clothes and hair are all in great condition.
I know everyone says it but we are genuinely a very nice family, absolutely noone we have spoken to can believe what has happened. everyone including the school compliment us on our kids appearance their manners.. they are around several other people like dance teachers, gymnastics teachers and football coaches, swimming instructors. Taekwondo instructors... All who have never raised a concern about any of my children.
Has anyone been in a similar situation to me?

Hi OP. Gosh what a situation.
Your 8yo sounds autistic (poo smearing, the taste/texture of food, the claims made, all sounds like what my autistic kid done at around that age).
Please look for a lawyer. I'm sure it will be ok, but find someone now, ideally non legal aid and NOT from the same LA you are in.

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:29

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 22:27

Hi OP. Gosh what a situation.
Your 8yo sounds autistic (poo smearing, the taste/texture of food, the claims made, all sounds like what my autistic kid done at around that age).
Please look for a lawyer. I'm sure it will be ok, but find someone now, ideally non legal aid and NOT from the same LA you are in.

Thankyou... I do have a solicitor :)
I do believe he has some form of autism

OP posts:
Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 22:30

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 21:11

I have a family law solicitor... I'm unsure as to why you have assumed I haven't and haven't done anything for 4 weeks....

My children can't come home because I am on bail.

Can you move out so you are not 'a danger' to them - so effectively husband takes over?

TheSnugHare · 19/10/2024 22:31

Peonies007 · 19/10/2024 22:30

Can you move out so you are not 'a danger' to them - so effectively husband takes over?

The OP did mention the husband was arrested too for some reason I think at the same time, you’d have to find the comment

PubicZirconia · 19/10/2024 22:31

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:25

Of course I would never do them. I purely meant that surely they wouldn't arrest me just because a child said them things and would actually need to come out ect..

Don't mix my words.

I didn't mix your words at all. I just used seven of my own.

I'm so sorry that your kids are going through this and I really hope everything is resolved quickly.I also wish your son the best.

HornyHornersPinger · 19/10/2024 22:34

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 21:35

Well done you.

I haven't been sat for 4 weeks doing nothing.. and you don't know that either.

Thanks for your input but I don't have anything further to say to you.

Ok fab, I'll leave it. Hope you find someone to blow smoke up your ass, tell you the Police and SS are totally unreasonable, couldn't possibly have concerns because you're evidently wonderful parents. Good luck!

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:35

PubicZirconia · 19/10/2024 22:31

I didn't mix your words at all. I just used seven of my own.

I'm so sorry that your kids are going through this and I really hope everything is resolved quickly.I also wish your son the best.

Thankyou.

OP posts:
Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 22:40

HornyHornersPinger · 19/10/2024 22:34

Ok fab, I'll leave it. Hope you find someone to blow smoke up your ass, tell you the Police and SS are totally unreasonable, couldn't possibly have concerns because you're evidently wonderful parents. Good luck!

I never once said that at all.
And that's not what I came here for. I came to speak to people who had been through a similar situation to me because although it's okay talking to friends ect it's nice to speak to people who have been or going through something I am.

Which as you said you have been through it, however you didn't offer any advice. You basically told me I'd been sat on my arse for 4 weeks not caring my children weren't with me and that I should of rang a solicitor the day they were taken... Which, I did.
You could of asked them questions instead of just assuming I'd done nothing. I wasn't being rude to you, I was simply sayin I have nothing more to say to you.

OP posts:
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