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Social services..

285 replies

Lucas28 · 19/10/2024 19:05

apologise if this message is abit long.
I have 6 children, all aged between 12 and 6. My 8 year old son has always proved a little difficult for me to handle. His behaviour at home is really defiante. Everything is a chore, he doesn't get on well with his siblings because of his behaviour either. Alot of the time it sounds really silly but just things like he won't get dressed won't brush his teeth won't go in the bath without screaming, we take them on holiday or days out very regular and sometimes he won't join in. He poos all over my house, on the carpets, on teddy bears, wipes it on the curtains. He's pooed on my sofa. In 2021 he went through a stage of not eating, it was the time of covid and no doctor wanted to know they brushed it under the carpet because he was healthy. The school referred us to the social services who came out, did an assement on us and left.
His behaviour has got better over the years, sometimes he does revert back to his old ways. However the oast few months he has started the eating thing again, he steals food at school. The safe guardin teacher gives him spare and also he is allowed to go to her at school if he is hungry, which he has been doing every day. He then comes home and refuses to eat for me. He will pick at his tea, say it is spicy and then later on we find banana peels, crisp packets ect all hidden in his room. He steals money, he's stolen my wedding rings, car keys. Eventually he returns them or admits he has stolen them but this is something I have raised with the teachers and the safe guarding teacher and the senco teacher too.
In July I broke down at school and told the safe guarding teacher I was struggling as every day for a few weeks he has been very difficult. She made a plan with my child who when she asked why he doesn't eat at home he openly told her "I like to upset my mum" he had previously told other teachers this too and about his stealing.
I never heard anything after July. We had a great summer, we went on holiday, we did lots of days out and majority of the time my son joined in and really enjoyed the holidays with us. His eating wasn't brilliant but he wasn't poorly and he was eating enough for me to not be concerned about. However he is quite small for his age. He has been weighted and measured at school and always done back the perfect BMI. Iv mentioned to a few professionals before about his height all who have said "every child grows differently and as long as he is healthy" - he is never at the doctor & has about 3 days off school his whole life apart from when schools had bubbles ect in COVID.
However on the 26th September I attended school to drop my 4 youngest off and my 8 year old didn't want to go he was drying sayin he didn't want to see the teachers they keep asking him questions and he's upset by it, so I approached reception and asked to speak to the teacher in question. I wasn't nasty or anything I just wanted to clear things with her as we hadn't spoken since July really.
I was then asked to go into a room where 2 social workers were waiting for me, apparently they had attended my house twice that week... Once at half past 4 but we were out at football and once at half 8am but I was on the school run. She asked me a few questions and then about 15 minutes later the police turned up and arrested me for child neglect. The social worker was even gob smacked.
The accusations made against me by my son were that I dont feed him tea, I bath him in a cold bath (something I have never heard from anyone) and that I make him sleep on a sofa.
I was released on bail and so was my husband but as a result the children have gone into foster care.
It's been 3 weeks and 2 days, no social worker has shown me any reports. Iv seen my children once for an hour and a half. They mentioned on the second say they would apply for an interm court order but I haven't heard anything since. When I did see my children and the social worker she said to us all "this is just a temporary measure whilst the police do their investigations"
I have spoken to 2 of my children on the phone once. 2 of them twice.
My little boy who made these allegations has told us and the social worker he wants to come home but obviously now they have to take what he has said very serious.
He has had a medical at the hospital which said he had no marks broken bones or any signs of physical abuse. Nor has he made any allegations, yet the school have said they believe he is physically abused. They said he is quite small for his age. They took bloods and these came back he is slightly anemic so now on iron supplements. The report says he is happy, chatty, doesn't look unwell, his nails teeth clothes and hair are all in great condition.
I know everyone says it but we are genuinely a very nice family, absolutely noone we have spoken to can believe what has happened. everyone including the school compliment us on our kids appearance their manners.. they are around several other people like dance teachers, gymnastics teachers and football coaches, swimming instructors. Taekwondo instructors... All who have never raised a concern about any of my children.
Has anyone been in a similar situation to me?

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Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 13:05

Peonies007 · 20/10/2024 12:56

That's good. They will ask foster carers to write their take as well.

Credit where it's due, they all seem really lovely!

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BeCalmSloth · 20/10/2024 13:20

Sorry if it has already been said, but:

  1. police powers of removal last only for 72 hours, so that's not relevant now.
  2. children can only be accommodated under s20 of the Children Act by consent - so any parent with parental responsibility can withdraw them at any time.
  3. the local authority would then have two options if they want to continue to remove them, both of which require a court order: an emergency protection order or an interim care order. An EPO is easier to get (and not appealable) but much shorter term. Here, they will probably go straight for an ICO. They would need to first issue underlying proceedings though for either a Care or Supervision Order to ultimately be made.

You may want to withdraw your consent to s20 and force the issue. The court has to consider contact so at least that way you'd get the issue in front of a judge.

StopTalkingPlease · 20/10/2024 13:22

Have the police arranged a date to interview your children? If not call the seargant and push for this to happen quickly. The likelihood is the matter will be dropped after the interview. The children might decline to be interviewed. They should not be pressured into this in any way.

Children should always be placed with family where possible. Call the social services manager and insist they urgently complete the necessary checks so that the children can be placed with family.

Why are you unable to have regular contact with the children?

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 13:30

StopTalkingPlease · 20/10/2024 13:22

Have the police arranged a date to interview your children? If not call the seargant and push for this to happen quickly. The likelihood is the matter will be dropped after the interview. The children might decline to be interviewed. They should not be pressured into this in any way.

Children should always be placed with family where possible. Call the social services manager and insist they urgently complete the necessary checks so that the children can be placed with family.

Why are you unable to have regular contact with the children?

Not as far as I am aware.
The original letter I received from my solicitor said they police were waiting on a medical (which is now back) an interview with my child. & A report from the safe guard. Which I am assuming they have this report already because it's the referral to the social. But when I spoke to the social worker I asked if they had interviewed my child and she said "I don't think they will" .... Obviously this isn't concrete so doesn't. Ean they won't interview him. I'm. It sure if she assumed or if she had been told.

The only reason I haven't seen them regular is purely because the social haven't pulled their finger out. They originally told me it was hard to accommodate for 6 kids. I told them that although I'd want them to see each other id happily see them separate if it meant I saw them at least. All the foster carers have said I should be having more contact. My 2 oldest ring me ever other night and on a weekend both Saturday and Sunday.. their carer is obviously in room and she informs me if they've felt u well or if they have been upset or what they've been doing. Shs asked if she can get there hair cut ect because she's asked social to ask me and they haven't responded. It is clear that the social aren't passing information on between me and the carers at all.

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StopTalkingPlease · 20/10/2024 14:02

You do not need social services approval or input about contact with your children. What specifically are your bail conditions? Because if it is only that contact must be supervised there is nothing to stop you arranging visits directly with the foster parents, with your Aunt or another family member to supervise.

You will need to arrange contact yourself whether that’s visits or calls.

Call the sergeant today about the interview.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 14:23

StopTalkingPlease · 20/10/2024 14:02

You do not need social services approval or input about contact with your children. What specifically are your bail conditions? Because if it is only that contact must be supervised there is nothing to stop you arranging visits directly with the foster parents, with your Aunt or another family member to supervise.

You will need to arrange contact yourself whether that’s visits or calls.

Call the sergeant today about the interview.

Thankyou. I did not know that. I actually asked my social worker if I can meet the foster carer and she said she's not sure and needs to contact her manger.

Which I don't really understand because they have said when my kids go to football with the carer I am allowed to go and watch and see them ect. Which I really appreciate but then they don't pass the info on to the foster carers about where it is. It's hard having someone as a middle man who doesn't pass messages on.

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Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 14:30

StopTalkingPlease · 20/10/2024 14:02

You do not need social services approval or input about contact with your children. What specifically are your bail conditions? Because if it is only that contact must be supervised there is nothing to stop you arranging visits directly with the foster parents, with your Aunt or another family member to supervise.

You will need to arrange contact yourself whether that’s visits or calls.

Call the sergeant today about the interview.

And sorry I forgot to add ..

My bail conditions are no unsupervised contact with anyone u18.

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StopTalkingPlease · 20/10/2024 14:39

Cut out the middle man and contact the foster parents directly to arrange contact with you and your Aunt. Take the children out for the day. This arrangement is completely voluntary and one you can withdraw from at any time.

Are the foster parents taking them to football?

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 14:43

StopTalkingPlease · 20/10/2024 14:39

Cut out the middle man and contact the foster parents directly to arrange contact with you and your Aunt. Take the children out for the day. This arrangement is completely voluntary and one you can withdraw from at any time.

Are the foster parents taking them to football?

I can't I am not allowed their number I have to wait till they ring me. Once I speak to them I will ask them about contact.

No the foster carers said the social haven't passed any information on to them about football despite me sending them it all. But iv passed it on myself now.

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12345mummy · 20/10/2024 15:19

OP does you husband have the same bail conditions? If not, the children can live with him if you move out

12345mummy · 20/10/2024 15:24

Sorry just read he was arrested too and bailed - for what if there were no allegations made against him? If they’re accusing him of not protecting the child from you then if you move out surely he can live at home with the children?
Also - are you absolutely sure your husband is telling the truth? Could there have been allegations made against him that he is t telling you about?

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 16:14

12345mummy · 20/10/2024 15:24

Sorry just read he was arrested too and bailed - for what if there were no allegations made against him? If they’re accusing him of not protecting the child from you then if you move out surely he can live at home with the children?
Also - are you absolutely sure your husband is telling the truth? Could there have been allegations made against him that he is t telling you about?

No my husband came home from work and obviously I wasnt home but hadn't had an opportunity to contact him. He went to school where the social told him he had to go to the police station, when he arrived he was arrested. He was asked the questions as me by the same police office and her left at the same time as me .

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PMAmostofthetime · 20/10/2024 19:44

@Lucas28

You are getting some bad advice on here- Do not turn up to any of your children's classes, so not try to cut out the Police or Social Services and arrange contact it will all go against you.

Instead email the social worker do you have an email trail and if you still get no answer call the main social services line and ask to speak to their manager, any non-
Compliance will mean that Police Powers of Protection can be re invoked and an emergency court order.

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 19:51

PMAmostofthetime · 20/10/2024 19:44

@Lucas28

You are getting some bad advice on here- Do not turn up to any of your children's classes, so not try to cut out the Police or Social Services and arrange contact it will all go against you.

Instead email the social worker do you have an email trail and if you still get no answer call the main social services line and ask to speak to their manager, any non-
Compliance will mean that Police Powers of Protection can be re invoked and an emergency court order.

The social told me I can go to the football classes ect not anyone else.

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Ihopeithinkiknow · 20/10/2024 20:41

@Lucas28 my comment wasn't aimed at you btw it was aimed at the thick twat who questioned you on the amount of children you had as if there was anything you could do to change it now. I guess my sarcasm didn't show but that was my intention. Hope you manage to get this all sorted x

Lucas28 · 20/10/2024 23:23

Ihopeithinkiknow · 20/10/2024 20:41

@Lucas28 my comment wasn't aimed at you btw it was aimed at the thick twat who questioned you on the amount of children you had as if there was anything you could do to change it now. I guess my sarcasm didn't show but that was my intention. Hope you manage to get this all sorted x

Sorry didn't read the room well haha.

I know this also isn't what you meant but I wouldn't change it anyway even if I could, I always wanted a big family and we are surrounded by lots of bigger families too. I know people judge it and it's easy to blame anything that goes wrong on the fact there are six of them but apart from this, we are a very normal happy family and I wish people would keep their remarks to themselves about it, so rude.

Thankyou very much :) me too, I have received some brilliant advice on here all of which I am going to take on board x

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Ihopeithinkiknow · 21/10/2024 00:46

@Lucas28 I'm one of 8 and I can say that my parents have been through all sorts of shit with all of us at different points lol I hope you get reunited with them soon and all this becomes a distant memory

okydokethen · 21/10/2024 08:59

Section 20 has been poorly used here, you don't have to agree to it you can go to court - by agreeing to s.20 you are saving the LA vast amounts of time and money.

The extreme soiling at home suggests considerable emotional distress and could even be an indicator of sexual abuse. Something is very wrong for your son to be saying these things and presumably continuing to say this in foster care for weeks. You don't mention your five other children but it is very unusual for there to be no allegations from them or concerns about them or clear evidence from the hospital about your son to justify them also being in care. Again, from what you've written only the s.20 agreement is keeping them from coming home.

You need clearer legal advice. Unless you have been kept in custody you should be having regular contact with your children.

Lucas28 · 21/10/2024 09:18

okydokethen · 21/10/2024 08:59

Section 20 has been poorly used here, you don't have to agree to it you can go to court - by agreeing to s.20 you are saving the LA vast amounts of time and money.

The extreme soiling at home suggests considerable emotional distress and could even be an indicator of sexual abuse. Something is very wrong for your son to be saying these things and presumably continuing to say this in foster care for weeks. You don't mention your five other children but it is very unusual for there to be no allegations from them or concerns about them or clear evidence from the hospital about your son to justify them also being in care. Again, from what you've written only the s.20 agreement is keeping them from coming home.

You need clearer legal advice. Unless you have been kept in custody you should be having regular contact with your children.

They are in care because I was arrested and on bail.

There is absolutely no sexual abuse towards my child.

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ThatCalmHelper · 21/10/2024 09:23

Lucas28 · 21/10/2024 09:18

They are in care because I was arrested and on bail.

There is absolutely no sexual abuse towards my child.

What were you arrested on suspicion of (apologies if you have mentioned it and I have missed it)?

Lucas28 · 21/10/2024 09:33

ThatCalmHelper · 21/10/2024 09:23

What were you arrested on suspicion of (apologies if you have mentioned it and I have missed it)?

My child has been telling the safe guarding teacher at school I haven't been feeding him, he's then been going into school and having breakfast there. Getting to leave lesson because he is hungry... Then when he comes home he sometimes refuses tea or picks at it. He refuses breakfast. All off which I have explained to her and said because he knows you're gonna give it him instead..

So was arrested on suspicion of and on bail whilst they do their investigations

OP posts:
ThatCalmHelper · 21/10/2024 09:33

Lucas28 · 21/10/2024 09:18

They are in care because I was arrested and on bail.

There is absolutely no sexual abuse towards my child.

OK, apologies its in the OP!!,

As far as I can see the children are currently only in care on the back of the s20, you were arrested, but not charged and released on bail.

I would retract the s.20, say you want the children returned and press the police to make a decision on charging or not - the problem with waiting is you could be on police bail for 3 months.

Presumably if you temporarily moved to parents or a friends, your DH could look after them in the meantime.

Lucas28 · 21/10/2024 09:35

ThatCalmHelper · 21/10/2024 09:33

OK, apologies its in the OP!!,

As far as I can see the children are currently only in care on the back of the s20, you were arrested, but not charged and released on bail.

I would retract the s.20, say you want the children returned and press the police to make a decision on charging or not - the problem with waiting is you could be on police bail for 3 months.

Presumably if you temporarily moved to parents or a friends, your DH could look after them in the meantime.

Edited

No worries.

I am on bail for 3 months. It's a joke how slow they work!

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Peonies007 · 21/10/2024 10:00

Lucas28 · 21/10/2024 09:35

No worries.

I am on bail for 3 months. It's a joke how slow they work!

Are you speaking to your lawyer today?
Remember to ask Police what is the status/what they still need etc. They most likely already made a decision but no one told you.
Once you know, demand a return of your children.
I had a detailed chat with husband now he is off duty.
He says something doesn't feel right. Are you sure your husband didn't get charged with something else as well? Nothing in his history/ no DV/ no previous arrest etc? Even something before you met.
He could have been arrested twice.
I'm not saying that's a truth, just that hubby says it would be unusual to be under s 20 and relatives weren't considered etc.

You didn't say much about him as what are his exact charges/bail conditions.
Is it exactly the same as yours?

Lucas28 · 21/10/2024 10:26

Peonies007 · 21/10/2024 10:00

Are you speaking to your lawyer today?
Remember to ask Police what is the status/what they still need etc. They most likely already made a decision but no one told you.
Once you know, demand a return of your children.
I had a detailed chat with husband now he is off duty.
He says something doesn't feel right. Are you sure your husband didn't get charged with something else as well? Nothing in his history/ no DV/ no previous arrest etc? Even something before you met.
He could have been arrested twice.
I'm not saying that's a truth, just that hubby says it would be unusual to be under s 20 and relatives weren't considered etc.

You didn't say much about him as what are his exact charges/bail conditions.
Is it exactly the same as yours?

Morning..
Yer I am currently waiting for a call back from the criminal solicitor and from the police man in charge of my case.

Yer my husband's bail conditions are exactly the same as mine, he wasn't arrested for anything else I am absolutely certain. I was in the station all day, my husband came in at 5pm after work, was asked a few questions and then he left with me at 8pm ...

The social did come to see us on the day after and they said the children went to emergency foster care because me and husband were at the station so had no contacts for family. That day they took a list of all my family and friends and told me they would prefer them to be with family ... But since they haven't got round to looking into my family or friends.

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