Gentle parenting an extremely argumentative nearly 6yo, pulling my hair out

[Homesteady]

Hi, would love any tips from a gentle parenting perspective.

DD is 5, nearly 6. More and more everyday she is becoming extremely argumentative about everything and anything OR she ignores me like I'm not even there. I swear she would argue that the sky was kahki green given the opportunity. Or I'll ask a basic thing like what she'd like to wear and she just stares at me gormlessly/pretends like I didn't say anything until I've repeated myself 5 times, say okay then I'll choose triggering a meltdown. If it was once or twice then fine but its basically every interaction I have with her, all day every day.
I don't want to crush her spirit. She's going to be a tenacious adult someday and I'm here for it BUT I also believe that children should have respect for their parents.
To stop the toddler tantrums we always offered choices when she was little... Red cup or blue? And it worked. We've carried that on even now with the belief that if she has a choice then she can express her independence and not cause too much of a ruckus over basic stuff, hence asking things like what she wants to wear. And I can tell that she ignores my question when she doesn't want to do something (ie get dressed).
It feels so disheartening that she has so much freedom of choice in life and that she fights me on every single thing
I should mention we're homeschooling and although we have a set structure of learning we have a pretty child-led approach.
Basically, DD runs the house right now. She has consequences for being excessively rude or disrespectful like removal of privileges but she is still only 5 so there's only so far it can go. Once all privileges have been taken away and they still don't care? You can't exactly ground a child that young. Being in a battle of wills with a 5 year old is not a good look lol, any tips on how to nip this in the bud are more than appreciated.
Please, no negativity. x

These arent examples of defiance or argumentativeness

This is what kids say and do.

You're talking about her like she is older than 5?

@Gobleki ok thank you, those are actually some good suggestions and a reminder to have fun with it. I know she's normal and intelligent. Theres literally zero need to call me a control freak.

homeschooling works for us, so no.

Homeschooling doesn't work because your daughter won't do a single thing she is told and that's not going to be conducive to learning.

She has too much choice, too much leeway and no structure.

I'd send her to school then there would be no choice to opt out of the structure and she would not be ruling the roost as there would be 29 other children to think of.

But you won't do it so carry on pandering.

She wants you to actually give her some strong boundaries.

@bellac11 yes, and I am asking for advice on how to deal with this as a response to literally every single thing I say all day. I never said she's not a normal 5 year old. I'm having a hard time, not looking to diagnose her lol.

Oh that sounds like every kid ever! Kids are universally known as annoying for a reason.

That said, just a note that it also depends on the tone... If the way she just stares at/ignores you or corrects you dips into contempt or even cheerful condescension, then it could be cabin fever or lack of boundaries.

In my years of experience in ECE – including, as examples, children with special circumstances who had to stay with us all day without any provision for activities or socialisation due to parents' schedule, or people-pleasing parents who were almost afraid to make their kids unhappy – there's a difference between normal kid argumentativeness and contempt/condescension.

Are you present at every one or most of those extracurricular activities you list? Are you ever able to say an unconditional no to her when necessary? I'm a huge believer in building secure attachment, as well as respectful and loving parenting, but just make sure your relationship doesn't become a bit too helicopter and/or Stockholmish. If not though, it's all good and she sounds like every other kid.

Ok, so what do you want to happen, for you to calm down about it?

Thats not a parenting issue, thats for you to come to terms with how kids are

I don’t want to piss you off but consider it!? I and everyone else have personality traits too. Some people are spineless, some are liars, some are impatient, some are reckless etc. No one’s perfect, including me! I only mention it because I see this trait in people with kids with this problem. Pretty sure you could come and analyse me and find some flaws.
You’re clearly live your child. Look within for your child’s behaviour, it’s what we all have to do x

Your comment doesn't reflect what's happening in our life at all. Her studies are solid, she does as she's told and she has structure. I'm looking for a way to get her there without being harsh and to suffer less with her constant debating. Thanks anyway though.

@bellac11 well if you read the OP you'd see I'm looking for gentle approaches from people versed in the gentle parenting method, because I want to be less harsh and bring some zen into our lives. Just because I don't want your particular style of parenting advice doesn't mean I'm not looking for parenting advice. OP says who I'm looking for tips from, thank you.

Your daughter is going to have to get used to being told that she is being a pain in the arse/argumentative and unpleasant at some point. Either you can do it in the full knowledge that you love her, or it will be done to her by people who give far less of a shit about her emotional development and whether she is upset by what they say and do. It’s nonsense to think that you can raise a child to be a fully functional adult without making them feel uncomfortable at some point.

I tell my kids either do what you’re told or get put to bed. I’ll ask a few times and if I’m still ignored then I say Right - go to bed then. That usually results in grumbling but they finally do what I said. Except the youngest, who is autistic so he often blanks me like you described.

Having said that, I don’t offer too many choices. Obviously I’ll offer a choice of foods or whatever, but with clothes I just pick an outfit.

I havent given any particular parenting advice as such

But you have given so many mixed messages about what the 'problem' is

On the one hand, she is argumentative and defiant all day long, arguments about every single thing you say.

You then give some examples of that, which are not argumentative or defiant, they're just normal 5 year old interactions

But you also say that she argues and is defiant about more significant things like wont get dressed and she 'rules the house'.

On the other hand, you say she is fantastic with peers and other adults and that you home schooling her is successful because she does what shes told and adheres to the structure and routine

Im afraid you're not making sense.

Dont sweat the small stuff (the chatty arguments are small stuff)

Hold firm on her doing what you tell her to do…which first involves not asking her.

would you get dressed please (5 yr old thinks its up for debate)

get dressed now and then we will go down and have breakfast. (5 yr old decides whether to comply or disobey)..she doesnt get dressed…give her 5 mins….
You arent dressed yet, so you arent going down for breakfast. You go down and have a cup of tea. If she follows, take her by the hand and return her upstairs..you need to get dressed before you come down for breakfast..rinse and repeat

If you need to get firmer (because she thinks its all a game) I will count to three and if you arent getting dressed then you will have to go on the stop and think chair (chair previously identified and explained as a place she has to go and stay to think about why she isnt listening to Mummy). Count to three, put her on the chair for 5 mins. After that she has to tell you why she was on the chair and say what she should have done. Then back to getting dressed with a hug and telling her you know she is going to be much better at listening now. If she jumps off the chair, you just return her..over and over and over. The clock restarts each time.

good luck

You've said "DD runs the house"

Parent your child - that doesn't need to be shouty or mean - discipline can work with gentle parenting.
You need to get a handle on this or you'll have a fight on your hands soon.

A 4YO doesn't need all this fluffy crap - give her two options at most and make sure she sees consequences if she doesn't do what she needs to.

Get some damn boundaries in place, send her to school, and work on consequences.

Hiya, thanks for responding :)
She doesn't seem cheerful, its more like selective hearing and mucking about when she doesn't want to do something.
Her Dad and I are both pretty relaxed but I definitely am the bad cop parent ie if mummy says No then its No (she's doing a lot of playing us against each other recently like if I say No she goes and asks Dad but thats a whole other thing and we're working on being on the same page to counteract that, again shes 5 so im not shocked by that). She will do what is expected of her...eventually.
She is left for whole days at forest schools and until about 2 weeks ago she was always dropped and left at clubs (taekwondo, rainbows and gymnastics). The last fortnight she suddenly has started freaking out with separation anxiety with clubs and I'm not sure why tbh. She suddenly requests someone stay to watch at clubs or promise we're nearby. Shes always been extremely outgoing and gets stuck in so it's quite put of character. I'm willing to stay for a session or two if it helps reassure her but we can't do it forever. She seriously freaks- tears, shaking, full meltdown mode. No major events gave happened in life, these are all clubs shes attended for a long time.
Do you think its connected somehow? It seems opposing- separation anxiety combined with constantly battling me. Appreciate your thoughts!

So if your looking for practical tips :

Try backing off completely for a few days. Make a conscious effort to be very laid back. “What colour hair mummy” “whatever you want, pick the weirdest colour you can”
“I don’t want that cup” “ok well your 5 now so I’ll get a little stool and you can pick your own cup and get your own drinks now because your a big girl”
”I don’t want to get dressed”
”oh daughter, I can’t be bothered with this nonsense. I’ll put your clothes in the chair and see you downstairs when your ready, I’m going to start making pancakes, you can have some when your dressed ….I do love you even though you NEVER stop moaning haha hehe” … walk straight out.

Try this for a couple of days I’d be suprised if she was not responsive to
this. Especially if you make a big deal of it for example if your sister comes over or something, saying in ear shot “Oh, daughter gets her own cups now, she’s so grown up, it’s crazy, so proud of her”

Her studies are solid, she does as she's told and she has structure.

But also

She's argumentative, doesn't listen and rules the roost...

Op, the thread was about finding solutions to the problems but now you're pretending there aren't any problems.

That's so normal it's really odd you think otherwise. That's just part of kid-conversation.

@SeaToSki I will definitely try this! Thank you!

@titchy read it again. It says I don't believe she's not normal.

@Whinge I'm sorry you're so confused.

Don’t overwhelm her with choice. Put two suitable outfits out and let her chose which one. She still gets a choice, but it doesn’t overwhelm. Do the same with every scenario? Painting or Lego? Park or feed the ducks? Choice of tv show… just give two options.

also give warning of a change in activity. So, we are leaving in 15 minutes, we are leaving in 5 minutes, get your shoes on we are leaving, say goodbye etc.

and lots of rewards for good behaviour with a choice or two rewards ie. Ten stickers on your chart and you can have either a kinder egg or a colouring book. So she has a day in every decision, but it’s doesn’t overwhelm x

good luck x

@wishingiwas20something that's genius, and something I think she'd definitely go for. Thank you!