Gentle parenting an extremely argumentative nearly 6yo, pulling my hair out

[Homesteady]

Hi, would love any tips from a gentle parenting perspective.

DD is 5, nearly 6. More and more everyday she is becoming extremely argumentative about everything and anything OR she ignores me like I'm not even there. I swear she would argue that the sky was kahki green given the opportunity. Or I'll ask a basic thing like what she'd like to wear and she just stares at me gormlessly/pretends like I didn't say anything until I've repeated myself 5 times, say okay then I'll choose triggering a meltdown. If it was once or twice then fine but its basically every interaction I have with her, all day every day.
I don't want to crush her spirit. She's going to be a tenacious adult someday and I'm here for it BUT I also believe that children should have respect for their parents.
To stop the toddler tantrums we always offered choices when she was little... Red cup or blue? And it worked. We've carried that on even now with the belief that if she has a choice then she can express her independence and not cause too much of a ruckus over basic stuff, hence asking things like what she wants to wear. And I can tell that she ignores my question when she doesn't want to do something (ie get dressed).
It feels so disheartening that she has so much freedom of choice in life and that she fights me on every single thing
I should mention we're homeschooling and although we have a set structure of learning we have a pretty child-led approach.
Basically, DD runs the house right now. She has consequences for being excessively rude or disrespectful like removal of privileges but she is still only 5 so there's only so far it can go. Once all privileges have been taken away and they still don't care? You can't exactly ground a child that young. Being in a battle of wills with a 5 year old is not a good look lol, any tips on how to nip this in the bud are more than appreciated.
Please, no negativity. x

My kids can be a bit like this! They're both quite strong willed, and definitely would have seen through choices like "red cup or blue cup" or "get dressed upstairs or downstairs" at this age.

One thing which I have found to be really successful is "gamifying" things as it moves the challenge away from me "no I won't" towards the thing I want done "I can do it faster than you".

So things like "can you get dressed before mummy finishes her shower", "Here's a challenge - can you tidy up all of your toys before the timer goes off" or "yesterday you read 3 pages, lets see if you can read 4 pages today". I make a point of being super pleased when I win if they aren't trying :-)

I would also echo the other posters saying that school might be positive for her if she's strong willed. It has been really good for my eldest who has learnt lots of the social skills around compromise / negotiation / doing as you're told even if you disagree which are so important for later life.

Yep time for her to go to school and start learning that there won't be any such thing as "gentle college" or "gentle employment".

Kids NEED to know where a boundary is, they NEED to be able to push against it to know where it is and to feel secure. If they dont know where it is, they will keep looking for it.

You're her parents, not her friend. She needs you to parent her properly.

Sounds to me she could do with some school. How can she learn how to be an adult when she basically gets her own way all the time. It's storying up trouble.

This! She will get her ass kicked by the real world!

Home schooling may be working for you but it’s not for her. Sounds like she’s bored and unfulfilled hence the defiance and lack of engagement.

There's a American TicToker called Mommacusses who does such good things about gentle parenting. Very real and not at all "floaty" as some of them are. I won't link because I know that's frowned on, but if you can't find her, DM me and I'll send you a link.

She's not a toddler, she's 5 FYI.
Her behaviour is unacceptable and you think you are doing her a favour with your style of parenting but you are not.
She will be very sorry when she emerges in the real world and she cannot control things around her any longer.
You are the boss, children love boundaries, give them.

Except that last line…”leave them to it if they don’t” isn’t gentle parenting. At all.

It would be “I see your struggling to turn off the computer game and do your homework so I’m going to turn it off for you.” They might still whinge and tantrum about it, but you’ve held the boundary while respecting that it’s hard to stop doing something your enjoying to do something crap instead. If you can be playful with it, even better.

The more “traditional” thing you see is a parent marching into a room and saying “game off, homework now” or shouting “SALLY HOMEWORK” up the stairs 10 times and being ignored before losing the rag and yanking the cable out the wall.

Gentle parenting is not getting into a battle of wills. It’s setting expectations before hand. If your kid can’t meet those expectations you “help” them by removing the game, calmly and holding the boundary while they complain that it sucks. Because it does suck. No one wants to stop doing something their enjoying to do something boring and something they might be finding difficult.

Gentle parenting is purposeful parenting rather than the random, repeated, yelled requests from the other side of the house from an emotionally disregulated parent that you often see. Gentle parenting is so, so much harder than more traditional parenting which usually doesn’t actually involve any thought whatsoever and is just an adult having a emotional reaction to a kid being a kid.

I agree. I think this behaviour is probably fun for her. It's a challenge to contradict you and get you to succumb...she probably enjoys it greatly.

Invent a schoolday uniform so she has no choice for 5 days a week and then can be more relaxed on the weekend.

I would really recommend the book ‘Good Inside’. There is also a podcast (but loads of really useful episodes were deleted, annoyingly).

In the book there is a part about the child’s feelings being valid, but not changing what you do. So, she doesn’t want to get dressed, fine, she is allowed to feel her feelings (as long as it’s safe). But that doesn’t change what you do.

It sounds like you want her to comply and you want her to like it, but she doesn’t have to like it. I think if you put less emphasis on this - it was less influential to you - she might in turn become less reactive. There’s also lots in there about building your connection with your child so that when you are asking her to cooperate with you, you’re doing this from a place of connectedness.

I also agree the homeschooling sounds like it may be a factor. If you, specifically, are constantly telling her what to do, I can see how this may impact on your relationship in other areas.

This is a great idea! Introducing some structure into the homeschool week to give that pleasant ebb and flow, and the enjoyment of normal routine. We all like knowing what's going to happen in the day and the upcoming week, to varying degrees.

I thought like this re getting dressed with my 7-year-old home educated daughter who sounds very similar to OP's. But what I found was that when she did need to get dressed as we were going out it became a battleground because she just wasn't used to doing it. So now we set the expectation that clean clothes are put on every morning so it becomes an easy habit.

how much time away from each other do you get?
If it’s pretty much just you and her then it’s gets easy to find each other annoying and frustrating. Does she have any learning needs (only asking as you homeschool)

People really have no idea about gentle parenting. Or, as I think it's better called-Responsive Parenting. @Homesteady do have a look at Mommacusses on TikTok and Insta.

There's a vast scale of approaches between gentle parenting and angry, scary parenting.

The kids I know of parents who have rigidly stuck to 'gentle parenting' through the baby, toddler, preschool, school age have had kids I haven't particularly wanted to be around for long. The rigmarole of getting out the house while gently suggesting in different ways that the child may wish to put their shoes on is surely no more beneficial than, 'time to go, shoes on now' and a child who does it straight away without any 'games' needed and pissing about.

There comes a point where firm but fair boundaries are very useful and can be delivered with love and care and without angriness but simple natural consequence. If child will take too long to choose the outfit, parent chooses it and child wears it. Tomorrow they'll probably choose their outfit without all the silliness.

Children behave this way when they don’t have boundaries. Ultimately their job is to push against them to essentially check they’re there - it’s what makes them feel safe. She needs parenting, not a child led approach. You can still be gentle whilst establishing yourself as the adult in charge. You’re not doing her any favours in the long run. (And I’m sorry, but it’s ridiculous when parents excuse their children’s poor behaviour by saying that they’ll be a strong and tenacious adult someday who will change the world etc etc).

Too many choices- I did the same up until age 5 and one night my son decided he couldn't cope with them all and changed into a beast. The level of decision making causing anxiety and comes out as unwanted behavior

Stop giving too many options.

Give direction over small things

Time to get dressed
time for dinner, this is what we are having
Put on your coat

It really helped us! you dont need to be mean, just decisive!

I may be wrong, there are more knowledgeable parents on this thread. But I consider myself to be a reasonably gentle parent and this is the approach I would take. I’d try to front load it a bit more, but essentially you choose or I will. No fannying around, I need to get to work!

I imagine she's thinking 'Why the fuck can't my mother set some boundaries, take the lead and parent me instead of giving me control and power that I don't understand and don't know what to do with.'

It's great that she's bright and argumentative — suggests she's bright and confident. But you are the adult and you need to remind her of that. Firm consistent boundaries help children to feel safe.

She’s running rings around you and your ‘gentle’ approach to parenting. You need to toughen up your ethos, especially if you’re determined to keep her at home for her education. She knows she can easily defeat you.

I’d send her to school if it was me.

Hence why I say it sounds nice. Boundaries and consequences, perfect, but really what do you do when the don't listen?
Because gentle parenting ethos says 'all behaviour is comminication (true) so treat the root cause. Is she feeling disconnected? Is she stressed about dressing? Etc. Then they advocate for quality time etc. When in reality sometimes your child needs to listen DESPITE being tired, hungry and disconnected. Don't run into the road/touch that.
You need a child that can listen instantly which gentle parenting doesn't cultivate.
Because, like other posters quoting the boundary thing said:
Give her an option.
'This shirt or this one? '
She doesn't choose.
Okay so you say
'if you don't choose, I will'
She doesn't choose
'I am choosing for you, put this one on'
'I don't want that one'
'Sorry you've had your chance unfortunately we have to put this on now'
Kid either runs away or says but I really want the other one mummy please??
Now you run after the kid or explain again nicely how they had their chance nd unfortunately you are putting this one on.
And then like op says its battle of wills cause you cannot do anything concrete to the kid. You have to emphasise that you understand they are dissapointed in your choice of shirts and you understand why they're hitting or running away, but it's not allowed.

This is a time consuming thing. Which you can do with your first, but if you have a crying newborn, waiting to go to an appointment you need that child dressed now!! Like now.

I also fell into the gp trap, because like I say it sounds very good. But it becomes a 30 min conversation each time you want something done. And the kid is unsure because mummy is unsure.

My children are much more secure and happy to listen if I now what I'm doing. I need a quick and easy consequence.

'if you don't stand still so I can put on your shirt this very instant, you'll lose your dessert/get a smack on the bottom/lose storytime/ anything.'
Kid knows mamma means business. Listens after the first time he got no ice cream.

I agree. @Homesteady you say home education is working for you, but it's clearly not working for her. There's too much choice, and it must be so overwhelming to have to think and overthink every part of her day. Sometimes options are good thing, but most of the time children are much happier letting adults make the choices / decisions on their behalf.

I feel like there are some false comparisons being made here between having a thirty minute conversation about something that needs to happen vs saying you'll give your kid a "smack on the bottom". Doesn't need to be either of those things. Like many others have suggested, I strongly recommend mammacusses on instagram or tiktok. She is also of the school of "mamma means business" and does it successfully with gentle/responsive parenting.

Great example of why gp sounds so great because it works in certain situations.
It's great if you can step in and turn off the game, or take away the toy they are throwing or hold them if they hit you.

But now you're in a busy car park and they're running away and you say stop and they don't listen. Okay gp says you say 'I see you struggle to listen, I am going to hold you so you cannot runaway'
Except sometimes you have a bay in your arms /shopping etc.
I need my kid to listen Now without intervention.
My child holds his cup with juice, he tips it on to the floor or carpet. Or he holds a pen and draws on the table /floor and not on the paper.
But I'm sitting on the sofa peacefully breastfeeding a newborn. I need to be able to see him pick up the pen and say do not draw on the floor! And he needs to be able to do it. I shouldn't need to first say
'only draw on the paper please'
He draws on the carpet again.
'I am going to take away the pen if you draw on the carpet'
Draws on carpet
Jumps up, says' I see you are struggling to listen I am going to take the pen away now'
Because one the damage is done? I needed him to listen before writing on the caret or tupping his juice. And secondly I'm busy I can't jump up