Worried about husband's "clean plate policy"!!!

[jujumm]

I have a 7-year-old, healthy, active, daughter. She eats very well from my perspective (experiments with new foods, eats vegetables, etc) while having the typical food aversions which shall pass (no onions please!). Very often (and I mean 90% of meals) my husband makes her finish the food on her plate, even after she has said she is full. Example: dinner tonight was accompanied by garden peas. She ate all her dinner and left a couple of spoonfuls of peas. He said if she did not finish the peas, she would not get a sweet (it's half term and we usually allow a small sugary treat after dinner). I get where he is coming from - why would she get a sweet if she still has some peas left? Also, kids very often say they are full just to ask for a snack, or be fully capable of having their weight in sugar shortly after a meal. But I find it hard to tell when she is "really" full, or just not interested in that meal or in finishing the vegetables. It has happened before that she was "hungry" after dinner, but that is truly rare; more often than not she has dinner, and won't eat again until breakfast the next day. I have read some articles and studies about how force-feeding your child is detrimental to their health, can impact how they control food, and potentially lead to obesity. We had a heated debate about it, as I believe she is old enough to choose when she will "clean" a plate. He is still old school in controlling her food. I told him to look up the research on the subject, and he rebuffed my plea, saying he doesn't believe in it and that he surely would find articles that would back his views. I would welcome it if you could share your views and experiences you have with your children on the subject. And if anyone here is a specialist in the area, please please help!

My kids are adults now but we never had a clean plate policy. However, what we did have was a 'Try to eat a bit more, or you'll be hungry 20 minutes later' policy.

Kids can sometimes want to stop after 3 or 4 mouthfuls because the 'immediate' hunger feeling goes. They learned to understand that and would eat a bit more but we never made them finish everything if they didn't want to.

We used to plate up for them anyway (easier due to small dining table), and you can never truly guess how much someone else will want to eat.

My issue with this is that tastes develop naturally.

Most kids do t like sprouts- most adults do . How can a child develop their own likes and dislikes if food is forced ? I absolutely hated eating . Had I been left alone I'm sure my tastes would have expanded and developed as they have no I choose to cook for myself . I make fabulous dinners and feed my neighbours too - but force feeding damaged me for years . I always stop eating when full - and I always knew when I was full and what I liked and didn't like . That's not changed . All the force feeding did was make food the enemy and ensure my family had zero contact with me or my kids .

These things last . I would never have starved to death if left to eat what I chose . As an adult I eat seafood , I enjoy cooking and trying new things . But those experiences stay with you . I generally wouldn't force the issue of food . My son is autistic and lived on a very limited diet - now he lives in Thailand and eats a variety of Thai food and loves it - he has friends who own a vegetarian cafe and he virtually lives there ! I'd use common sense . Peas are bloody joyless at the best of times . I always leave something on my plate - it's almost like a fuck you now - it's a
Compulsion even if it's a bite .

I'd never do this to anyone- particularly not someone I loved . Literally- food for thought .

Clean plate is wrong, food as reward is wrong. By all means encourage kids not to waste food and if they plate it themselves, not to pile it high and leave lots. But insisting a child clear their plate is wrong. It’s not about the child’s well-being, it’s about the parent’s control.

Agree with you OP. DS will sometimes say ‘am I finished?’ And I will reply ‘are you full up?’ And if he says yes then unless he’s barely touched his food that’s fine by me. If it doesn’t look like he’s eaten enough I’ll ask him to try 2 or 3 more mouthfuls but if he says he’s too full I don’t push it.

I have several memories of being a child and not being allowed to leave the table until I’d eaten my food. I have flushed fish fingers down the toilet, fed fish cakes to the dog and spewed up ocean pie after being sat staring at it for about 2 hours when I was around 5 and being forced to try it. I am now 31 and the thought of eating anything fishy makes my palms sweaty. What turned into a slight aversion turned into a lifelong phobia of eating fish/the smell of fish cooking.

My kids can leave food on their plate if they are full, but I won't then let them have a dessert.

Making children clear their plate is cruel. Would you, as an adult, want someone making you sit to finish a meal when you'd had enough?

I've never asked or made my children to clear their plates and my parents didn't either.

I had a clean plate policy. From the perspective of you finish what's on your plate or no pudding. So there's always the option of not eating what's on the plate if you really don't like it or can't manage it. No "force-feeding" involved there at all.

If they've room for pudding, they have room for their peas. It also helps you work out what they really don't like! Once I knew he really didn't like something then I didn't give that to him again but the first refusal still meant no pudding as you need to be consistent.

He is very normal weight and has a normal relationship with food.

In fact, prior to the clean plate rule, he was extremely fussy and there was a lot of food/dinner related angst with lots of food refusal. When we brought the rule in (and after a few days of tears while he got used to it) everything became much easier, he ate many more food stuffs and his relationship with food got better imo. Dinner times definitely became much more pleasant.

He's an adult now and now eats almost anything.

To be clear I think the key is (imo) you bring in the rule, you stick to it religiously, you don't have any debate or discussion or cajoling to eat during the meal. Nothing at all. It's a simple choice in their hands, eat all the dinner or not, pudding is available if you've still room after dinner. If they say they don't want their dinner, you say something light like "that's fine darling just remember there's no pudding if you can't finish your dinner". And then don't talk about it again.

Oh and obviously don't overload their plate!!!! It needs to be fair.

I have serious food issues because of my parents forcing this on me. I've not eaten fish or meat since I was 10 years old and I remember the feeling of absolute dread a few hours before each meal time (so the majority of my childhood....) because of the screaming matches and then having to sit sobbing with cold food in front of me...
it's scarred me for life tbh

Your DH didn't actually say she had to clear her plate. Just that she couldn't have a "sweet" if she didn't. People are confusing that with "you just clear your plate or your sit there all night and can't leave the table and/or you'll eat it in the morning" type rules. The latter is not on and is force feeding. The former isn't. If she can eat a sweet, she has room for the rest of her dinner.

My issue is using the dessert as a reward for eating everything

Sometimes I just fancy a yoghurt. It's not a reward for eating a pile of veg first . And it shouldn't be .

@TooHotToRamble you are correct in that it is not a situation where she if forced to sit for hours in front of cold food or else. Also he is not a "brute", there is no shouting or fights with her; it is more "if you are full to not eat the stuff on your plate then you get no sweet". I am still torn about that though and seems like opinions are so varied here. Some think sweets are part of a meal and shouldn't be conditional, others think if they are full for vegetables, then they are full for sweets. It is a hard one! If they are properly full of food, then is eating sweets overeating? Scratching my head here, but for some reason tonight in particular I got angry at him because she had already eaten so so well in my opition, there was no reason to debate about a tiny bit of peas left in the plate.

... when I confronted him about today (which led me to this post) he said I was undermining him in front of her. I don't think he's describing the situation fairly or accurately.

If the two of you had agreed to a rule and taught your daughter/children that, and one day your daughter broke the rule and he reminded her of it and you backed her up, that would be undermining him. But "eat every bite on your plate or no sweets" isn't something you both agreed to; it's something you feel strongly against. He's equally "underming" you by disagreeing with you in front of her and insisting she eat the peas when you said she didn't have to.

She doesn't want to eat the peas, you don't think she needs to eat the peas and don't want to make her eat the peas. He thinks she needs to eat the peas. He's the one who needs to be able to articulate a convincing argument why she must eat the peas.

I'd go with serving the side dishes "family style" for now, and letting each person take what they want. Of course if she's never taking any vegetables and filling up on mashed potatos and pudding that's a problem, but I doubt anyone would have have noticed if she'd taken the equivalent of twelve small spoonfulls of peas instead of fourteen!

I wonder if the 'you can't have a dessert if you don't eat all of your dinner', thing is just as bad as 'you must clear your plate'? I mean it's basically the same thing in different words.

I know some people think if you're not hungry for the rest of your dinner, you can't be hungry for dessert but I disagree.

If for example I'm eating a shepherds pie and the portion given to me is too big, I won't be able to eat all of it but I might fancy a small scoop of ice cream or a little pot of yoghurt.

Having said that we never had desserts when the kids were little (except birthdays/Xmas/other special occasion) and I don't consider a piece of fruit as a dessert - that's just a standard thing that sits in the fruit bowl.

hes teaching that saying no is meaningless.

he’s teaching her to overeat once full.

personally I’d start serving her smaller meals

I feel a clean plate policy totally builds unhealthy relationships with food. My DH can't understand where I'm coming from as he was brought up in a household where you had to finish all your meal and where nothing was wasted. He doesn't feel it has had any detrimental effect on him so doesn't understand where I'm coming from, but he knows it's really important to me so just goes along with it I think!

I do try to make sure my kids know not to ask for food they're not going to eat, but I also let them listen to their bodies and stop eating when they're full. I can't stand when we go to relatives of an older generation for dinner sometimes and they insist the children clear their plates, I know it's a bit of a generational thing and they just don't get my viewpoint on it, but it drives me nuts!

We rarely serve pudding but if we do, it is served alongside dinner with no conditions put on eating any of the food. It is what we were advised by our dietician when struggling with our daughters selective eating. No food is a ‘treat’, some foods have less nutritional value but it’s never a reward.

Today ‘pudding’ was strawberries, they were eaten alongside all of the other food and not as a reward for eating other things.

I dont like food wastage, so try to either dish up smaller portions and/or use serving bowls where possible and you take only what you'll eat.

I have to say that I would put my foot down with DH on this one and would tell him bluntly that I just wouldn't be supporting his stance on this.

My parents were "clear your plate" people. They meant well with it, but I was a fussy eater as a small child anyway and so mealtimes became a battleground. To be endured rather than enjoyed. As adults they admitted that their methods were a mistake and my mother said she would not repeat it if she could have her time again.

I've always had issues with my weight. It took me a long time to get away from the notion that I didn't have to eat everything before me.

Why don't you serve the food in dishes in the middle of the table and everyone takes what they want and think they can manage to eat. You have to have some of everything (or at least try it), but that way she can have fewer peas if she doesn't want a big portion. Kids can find large plates of food daunting and overwhelming. By starting with a small amount, and coming back for more if they want it, it is much more relaxed and they can learn to recognise how full they are.
I do agree with no extras if you haven't finished your main - if you are full surely you don't want anything else right? But this is one way of getting over that.

@NoodleDoodleDo "My child is not a dustbin"

Well said.

I was a victim of the "sit with cold food for hours" technique by my parents, and my small appetite caused problems and arguments between them, as well -- I can remember them raging at one another in the next room as I sat in front of my cold peas and mash at age 7 or 8. So I developed a load of guilt and negative self-worth in addition to the food aversions.

It has scarred me for life and made me fearful of trying new things for fear of gagging. I didn't eat mashed potatoes for more than 10 years after one of those incidents.

It becomes a social problem, too; I am apprehensive before business meals, with new people, being asked to others homes -- because of fear of gagging at the table. In fact in recent years I actually did gag on some seasoned chicken at the home of new-ish friends and have dodged them ever since; it ended a promising relationship.

My fear of food has to an extent blighted my adult life, though most people aren't aware because I avoid situations or have other coping methods like "I had a large lunch... I'm dieting for my upcoming holiday.." and other ruses. But it kills spontaneity with friends, neighbors, potential romantic partners. It's no way to go through life.

Never force a child to ingest anything. And don't use sugars and carbs as "rewards" for stuffing down other food.

I don't agree with "if they can't eat dinner, they can't eat pudding", UNLESS you are serving pudding straight after dinner.

Usually it would be an hour or two later in this house. I can feel too full to eat more dinner or a pudding at the time, but maybe 90 minutes later, I feel like I could eat a sweet treat. I don't see the issue with that.

Why does being too full to eat all of your dinner at 6pm mean that you can't have room for a pudding at 8pm?

It's just fucked up basically. Do t use food . As anything. Food is fuel .

The former isn't. If she can eat a sweet, she has room for the rest of her dinner.

You could easily say "if anyone has room enough for a pudding after their dinner, then they need a bigger dinner" though.

Like if being able to eat a pudding means you didn't have enough dinner, where does it end? She finishes all her dinner but is still hungry for a pudding - well, she clearly has room for more dinner, so give her a bigger serving next time?

Do you only get pudding when you are genuinely too stuffed to even want to anymore?

You know when you out for dinner and they offer dessert -

Does that mean if you enjoy a dessert you haven't eaten enough beforehand?