Any Muslim/ Jewish mamas against circumcision?

[Sleeplessem]

I’m expecting a boy, about 18 weeks so still a while to go yet but I know circumcision is a norm (at least on DH side of the family). It is typically done in the first few weeks of life.

For quite a few reasons, including anatomical ones (I went to a presentation on genital cutting and learned that until 18 months or so the foreskin is fused to the tip of the penis) I’m not for infantile circumcision. Luckily DH is of the same view, although he would still want it done In basically primary school age as he’s worried a) son would get bullied by other Muslim kids (I’ve heard of this tbf so it’s not entirely ridiculous, b) we’d be failing to do a religious requirement and c) that it might not get done. Me I’m more about consent, if DS asked about it at 12, id explain the procedure, why it’s considered a good thing in our faith and if he wanted to go ahead it’s his choice, same for if he said later.

I know religiously there is a difference of opinion,
I’m of the school of thought that it’s sunnah rather than wajib or fardh.

DHs family will be enraged by my stance. It won’t sway me either way, but I’m thinking of ways now to just diffuse the conversation or shut it down. I can lose my rag a bit about stuff like this. Any mamas who have similar opinions been through this? What did you say? How did you make the stfu? Lol xx

@RandomCatGenerator

And I think the poster who suggested just lying to DH parents might be on to something! How will they ever know?!

MIL would look after DC one day a week (at our house whilst we wfh) so would be changing nappies xx

OP When my oldest was about to start nursery he had a routine examination at the doctor's. He told the doctor his willy swelled up and he had problems weeing. His foreskin was very tight.
The doctor said he needed circumcising.
He was operated on at our local hospital. It was a day stay procedure but it was still an operation requiring an anaesthetic.

It was the worst day of my life. I went down to theatre and stayed until he was anaesthetised. I was very disturbed. When he was brought back to the ward he could not go home until he peed.
His little willy was stitched round the bell end and it looked angry.

When my youngest was born I actually wanted him to be circumcised at birth so he would not suffer the same fate and they would not do it.
I could have paid to have it done by a Rabbi. I had a Jewish friend who said she could organise it but I chickened out.

They say it is clean. Both my boys were quite happy with what they have got so there is no right or wrong IMHO

From a (liberal) Jewish family. We decided before having children we would not have the traditional ceremony if we were to have boys. I don't like it. I won't attend them, either. Haven't done since I was a young teenager actually. I felt v traumatised after, this particular Rabbi.. I didn't get a good feeling and he had long horrible nails.

Not against circumcision carried out by a doctor and do (rightly or wrongly) see it as cleaner. But no I wouldn't have done it to my child unless medically.

I have not yet had a boy so haven't/ may never have to actually make this decision. But my family would not have any problems they are not pushy with religion at all. Very relaxed, in fact. Even our Rabbi I think would be fine with this. Again pretty liberal.

@Anordinarymum

OP When my oldest was about to start nursery he had a routine examination at the doctor's. He told the doctor his willy swelled up and he had problems weeing. His foreskin was very tight. The doctor said he needed circumcising. He was operated on at our local hospital. It was a day stay procedure but it was still an operation requiring an anaesthetic. It was the worst day of my life. I went down to theatre and stayed until he was anaesthetised. I was very disturbed. When he was brought back to the ward he could not go home until he peed. His little willy was stitched round the bell end and it looked angry.

When my youngest was born I actually wanted him to be circumcised at birth so he would not suffer the same fate and they would not do it.
I could have paid to have it done by a Rabbi. I had a Jewish friend who said she could organise it but I chickened out.

They say it is clean. Both my boys were quite happy with what they have got so there is no right or wrong IMHO

I’ve read a little about the procedure and infant anatomy and from what I understand the foreskin is fused to the tip of the penis until early childhood so when it’s removed as a baby, that skin is in effect ripped away and all without pain relief. Sometimes too much skin can be taken and it can lead to a buried penis.

I'm sorry to sound intolerant, but if god wanted circumsision so badly then boys would be born without a foreskin. It's a poorly translated piece of mythical nonsense.

@movingadviceneeded

I'm sorry to sound intolerant, but if god wanted circumsision so badly then boys would be born without a foreskin. It's a poorly translated piece of mythical nonsense.

It’s not your opinion on circumcision that’s hurtful about your post but the mythical nonsense part, I think you could have left that out.

My faith is very dear to me, yes I don’t agree with circumcision and think people have made it more of a big deal than it needs to be, but I don’t believe it to be mythical nonsense

@movingadviceneeded

I'm sorry to sound intolerant, but if god wanted circumsision so badly then boys would be born without a foreskin. It's a poorly translated piece of mythical nonsense.

You do sound intolerant and a little ignorant if I may say so. My son had to have the procedure in order to wee

Medical reasons are obviously different. Asking for opinions is going to bring them out, OP. Cultural genetalia cutting is wrong. That's all there is to it.

@movingadviceneeded

Medical reasons are obviously different. Asking for opinions is going to bring them out, OP. Cultural genetalia cutting is wrong. That's all there is to it.

With all due respect my post is not ‘what’s your opinion on circumcision’ it is addressed to Muslim and Jewish parents to get their specific insights on how to navigate this conversation. As you don’t appear to be either, I’m not sure why you commented.

Again I’ve made it very clear I don’t agree with involuntary circumcision so there is literally no need to bring up the morality of the procedure

I think me being the rebellious one helped my parents deal with it a lot better than I thought they would. I kept pushing that it would be me answerable to God and not them. My husband had to step in in the end and said he didn't want his son to go through it if he had not and would teach him to stay clean at all times. My parents didn't dare say anything to their son in law so left it. My mum babysits my son whilst I work one day a week and changes nappies and she hasn't said anything. Also, I left my family to marry my husband and it took them a while to come round. (Thankfully, I was never in any danger). I think they are scared that I will do that again if they interfere too much.

I'm an Irish Catholic, OP, so I can't advise you abut circumcision but I come from a very devout family and my mother really rebelled against it. We didn't have a huge amount of contact with them outside th school holidays as we moved to the UK but my mother's answer to any religeous question was, frankly, to lie. She lied about everything, about being married before she had me (they eventually did the deed when I was seven), to my name ("Of course I'll call her Mary, Mammy," to seven years down the line when I was rather confused why I wasn't being called the beautiful Indian name my hippie parents had chosen for me, "Did I say I was using Mary as her first name?! I meant her SECOND!"). I think my Granny knew my mother was lying a lot of the time, but she decided she wasn't going to argue on our trips back home, although I was taken to mass a lot. I think she thought my soul needed more saving than my cousins. My mother squared it with God by going to confession an awful lot! Myself and my mother still have faith and our spirituality, we just don't agree with things that my darling Granny would have thought we go to hell over. For instance, I think contraception is a great idea! Its really hard, balancing a new generation's view on religion with older family members. I say do whatever it takes to keep everyone happy and if that involves a few white lies, God will forgive.

[quote Sleeplessem]**@BabyPink1* you’re coming off as quite rude, sure that’s not the intention though. But if you can’t tell for whatever reason, i’m against involuntary circumcision*

Of course I’ve heard of FGM, and whilst I’m 100% against involuntary circumcision (as I believe I’ve clearly stated) given the sheer degree of cutting that occurs in FGM, particularly type 4, I think it’s a bit offensive to any woman who has undergone that procedure to compare it to what we commonly refer to as male circumcision.[/quote]
BIG APPLAUSE!!! Why do people keep on comparing them?!

I was reading this thread and I think what you really need to do is talk to your husband. He is the one you have to have a serious discussion with. And then HE is the one who has to speak to his family, he has to step up

@grey12 yeah I think drawing a comparison between them is wrong.

Re your point around DH, he will explain to them and say not having it done rn, it’s just simply the weight of cultural and religious tradition that is being bucked here is huge, it’s one of those that I don’t think you can fully understand unless you’re either Muslim or Jewish. for instance my friends, are all progressive, as am I, and yet mine is still an extreme minority position to have. So to be clear it’s not a question of just stepping up biting the billet and they’ll accept it, it will get ugly

Just throwing another question into this, if your MIL is dead set on your child being circumcised and you are allowing them to look after your child is there a chance she could do this behind your back?

It would be easy for her to take the baby for a walk and then it is done. I am not sure whether she could do this, whether it has to be the parents who give consent rather than a relative. It would just worry me. There are enough grandparents who cut their grandchild's hair or pierce their ears. This is a much stronger belief you are dealing with.

@ViewFromTheSteeple

Just throwing another question into this, if your MIL is dead set on your child being circumcised and you are allowing them to look after your child is there a chance she could do this behind your back?

It would be easy for her to take the baby for a walk and then it is done. I am not sure whether she could do this, whether it has to be the parents who give consent rather than a relative. It would just worry me. There are enough grandparents who cut their grandchild's hair or pierce their ears. This is a much stronger belief you are dealing with.

No there’s no chance of that happening, she’d come to our house to watch ds, and she can’t drive and won’t take public transport or take taxis (ridiculous but that’s a whole other issue), so even if she wanted to there’s just no physical way that she could.

No there’s no chance of that happening, she’d come to our house to watch ds, and she can’t drive and won’t take public transport or take taxis (ridiculous but that’s a whole other issue), so even if she wanted to there’s just no physical way that she could.

I really wouldn't be letting your MIL look after your DS. If her views are this set then I would worry she would find a way, perhaps by arranging a lift with an elder or another determined family member. If it matters this much to your DH's family I wouldn't be leaving your DS in their care.

@Whinge

No there’s no chance of that happening, she’d come to our house to watch ds, and she can’t drive and won’t take public transport or take taxis (ridiculous but that’s a whole other issue), so even if she wanted to there’s just no physical way that she could.

I really wouldn't be letting your MIL look after your DS. If her views are this set then I would worry she would find a way, perhaps by arranging a lift with an elder or another determined family member. If it matters this much to your DH's family I wouldn't be leaving your DS in their care.

Appreciate where you’re coming from but we’d (both DH and I at the same time) be in the house too, so there’s no way we’d just let her take my kid out with a relative for a ‘random day trip’.

I should add if we did get an inclination that something like that could be on the cards then obviously we’d stop her from seeing DCs.

Again as you don’t know her or the family, it might be hard to see where I’m coming from but I don’t see it as something to be overly concerned with.

Barbaric genital mutilation and should only ever happen under Drs orders due to infection etc.

@1940s

Barbaric genital mutilation and should only ever happen under Drs orders due to infection etc.

Helpful thanks 😑

[quote Sleeplessem]@PigeonStreet37 I agree on circumcision but I don’t think it’s abuse to raise your child in a specific religion.[/quote]
Depends what religion tbf

@NakedNugget, could you elaborate?

I hope it's helped OP. Anyone concerned about family drama over the safety of their own child should be reported to social services. The thought of performing genital mutilation on my child to keep my in laws happy or to stop them being bullied would have me leaving that community / family and faith.

[quote Sleeplessem]@NakedNugget, could you elaborate?[/quote]
Yes... ISIS

www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

Scientology

KKK

Children of God

ILLUMINATI

And many more. Yes these have elements of other religions but they're all considered cults/religions and they're all fucked up

@1940s

I hope it's helped OP. Anyone concerned about family drama over the safety of their own child should be reported to social services. The thought of performing genital mutilation on my child to keep my in laws happy or to stop them being bullied would have me leaving that community / family and faith.

This comment pisses me off! You’ve clearly not read any of my posts or comments. I’ve clearly stated I’m against involuntary circumcision and will not be swayed.

Also the purpose of my post was NOT to canvas people’s opinions on circumcision or else that’s what the title would have said. It was to ask Muslim and Jewish parents of a similar mindset to DH and I how they navigated this complex cultural issue.

As you are clearly neither Muslim or Jewish nor read my post, why did you comment? What’s the value add of what you said?