' Chronic overparenting'......is it something MNers recognize ?

[mozhe]

...and by that I mean the persistent/long term/almost obsessive preoccupation with providing ' perfection' for their DCs....

Do you think this is something you are prone to ?

Is it more likely to occur in parents of first/only children ?

More likely in previously high achieving SAHMS ?

And what do you understand by the term ' benign neglect ' ?

meandmy - why do you not think people should defend themselves from attack from bullies? Very curious...

There is a serious issue here though. If Mozhe is who she says she is i.e. a psychiatrist, she comes across as a deeply unsympathetic character and I would therefore worry how this is perceived by people who might need the help of a psychiatrist. As Anna says she seems to be deliberately provocative and to me it seems very unprofessional.
Have we got any psychiatrists who can comment - name change if you have to.

this is really not the place to assess people's abilities to do their jobs.

I'm not assessing her ability to do her job. But she mentions what she does. And therefore people will get an impressin of what a psychiatrist is like from her posts.

anna your views are as bullying as your polar opposite. the fact that you cannot see it - doesn't make it not so.

you and xenia are one and the sme person with polar opposite views.

Mog, mozhe is not issuing a professional opinion when she comments on these boards. She is making comments as a private individual. At no time have I seen her make diagnoses or provide advice or opinions in anything other than a personal capacity. She seems pretty balanced and fair to me.

Just because you don't happen to agree with her PRIVATE opinions, does not mean that you should challenge her professionally. You do not know what she is like in her office.

I am happy to debate....I don't think I make personal attacks but if I have made a comment that can be construed as such then I unreservedly apologise.
The post I had a problem with has now been deleted.
Psychiatrists are like everybody else vary in personality/interests etc..No doubt some people think I am great/empathic/helpful...others think I'm shit/unsypathetic and rubbish.I can live with that.
I am not perfect....who is ?

"why do you not think people should defend themselves from attack from bullies? Very curious... "

A tit for tat personal attack is not a defence.

Why do you think it is? Very curious...

i would normally make a point of never getting into an argument with a psychologist, i mean, how could you win .

Custardo - ive thought that for a long time re the whole xannia88 thing.

mozhe, bit of a daft q here - what is the difference between a psychiatrist and psychologist? I used to know, i forgot.

Well I didn't see the post that was deleted but I agree with Anna that Mozhe isn't really interested in debate, she's interested in pushing her personal opinions.

Which on some subjects tbh we all are. There are some things which however many threads I participate in, I'm not going to change my mind over. And there are others which I have changed my mind over in the course of the time I've been coming on mumsnet.

I hope when I do discuss stuff I am never going to change my mind over though, that I don't deliberately inflame and insult other mumsnetters who disagree with me. I think that's wrong and not in the spirit of mumsnet and it makes this place less of a positive, supportive environment. Which is sad and wearisome.

I didn`t read the deleted post, but Anna is simply reacting to Mozhe, rather than throwing in comments and then watching the bad feelings bubble. I have taken mozhe seriously up to this point until I read this beauty about SAHMdom:

"A few genuinely like it, and they are probably the ones who are less cerebral.....most,( like me..), tryto get away with minimum effort, and hire in as much help as possible."

Imagine if a SAHM kept banging on about it something like the following as though she believed it was the truth:

"A few genuinely like [working] and they are probably the ones who are less caring/loving...most (like me) actually want to be with our children...

Even though many women from all walks of life repeatedly keep saying that they love being a SAHM, mozhe decides to label them as less cerebral. Many women on here are obviously very cerebral SAHMS so...why...I just dont get it. If the purpose is to create a lively debate, then thats great, mozhe, but if you really <span class="italic">believe</span> the things that youre writing...

So you respond to those comments. The deleted post was extremely personal and rather cruel. It was not a reasoned response from someone who wanted to engage in reasoned debate.

the fact mohze is a psychologist has nothing to do with anything

pointydog - she is a psychiatrist.

They are in the business of mental health.

So she ought to have higher than average self-awareness skills and understanding of other human beings' inner lives and circumstances.

She's off duty.

exactly, flyer. It's a message board. It's not the workplace.

Oh who cares if she's off duty. You don't have to be a psychiatrist on or off duty, to understand that constantly belittling and denigrating the choices of a large part of the company you're in (which in this case is the mumsnet membership), is insulting, bad-mannered and downright unpleasant. In an internet forum context, it's called trolling.

There's a fair amount of overlap Lucyellen....but essentially a psychiatrist is a medically qualified doctor with further training in mental health. A psychologist has degree in psychology,( i'm talking clinical psychology here....),and further professional training in clinical work, and usually a ph.d.
Let's drop the discussion about the deleted post. I am happy now it HAS been deleted.
Anna if I have said anything to hurt you personally then I apologise unreservedly....not sure about your assumptions on psychiatrists..I know lots,( unsurprisingly !!), and we are a pretty diverse but ordinary bunch of people....
I am here'off duty' as someone pointed out...

Mozhe - you haven't said anything to "hurt" me, but you constantly denigrate SAHMs and when I raise my voice to defend SAHMs (which I do) you single me out for particularly harshly denigrating and personal treatment.

Wouldn't you find it more rewarding to bring a bit more insight to the debate? This thread is a case in point - I responded quite carefully to your questions in the OP but didn't get much back in return.

YOU are the only person who has said I have 'denigrated/attacked' you so I am apologizing to you....but if you say it is not necessary...fair enough.

she is not the only person. i have made it clear that i agree with her. you so started this thread to provoke and annoy her.....

No not the case....that is a misinterpretation, but clearly Anna holds fast to the idea.....I am interested in the area of 'overparenting ' and had been discussing it with a colleague..

it is absolutely true that Mohze is no stranger to the gratuitous insult. Constantly calling women who look after their children stupid, no matter how many of them point out they have phds or were corporate lawyers or accountants or whatever. She accuses people of behaviour towards their children that is tantamount to abuse. As a psychologist she cannot be unaware that this stuff is hurtful and provoking. So she must do it on purpose.
The OP clearly has this agenda too. I find the faux ingenuousness of questions such as 'more likely in previously high achieving SAHMS?' very tiresome.
I work btw.

errrr. no. won't wash.
you accused her of / diagnosed her as suffering from "chronic over parenting....." which you state is, in your opinion as damaging in the long term as neglect...and then started a thread with this title in which your op says that the thing you have accused anna of means "the persistent/long term/almost obsessive preoccupation with providing ' perfection' for their DCs....".

you have effectively stated that you consider anna neglects her dc's (by her "chronic over parenting" and then seek to say that this is not personal / critical / offensive etc.

as i said. it won't wash.
you are right to apologise to her. you cannot seriously say you didnt expect her to be annoyed / upset??? you are after all a high achieving wohm..... and more "cerebral" by definition. and double