Should I tell my daughter she has a half sister? (title edited by MNHQ)

[tedrekasta]

I have an English daughter aged 32. She has 2 children.

Shamefully, I had an affair 6 years ago with a Polish woman who I met abroad whilst working which (accidentally) resulted in another daughter. She lives in Poland with her mother (and elder Polish half sister).

I have never told my English daughter about her half sister in Poland.

Historically, my English daughter always yearned for a sister and my wife and I regret not having any more children. We are in our 60's. I am 68.

I have to tell terrible lies to both my wife and my English daughter in order to go and visit my daughter in Poland. Which I do about every 2 months.

I miss my Polish daughter, now 5, very much. But I love my English daughter so much and don't want to hurt her. And I love my wife very much and don't want to hurt her.

I just don't know what to do.

Should I tell my English daughter that she has a very young half sister living in Poland?

I am deeply upset and ashamed of myself. But want the best for my wife, my English daughter and my Polish daughter.

I would love any advice. Especially from anyone who has been through such a situation or similar situation.

Thank you for any help.

Ted, I would never bloody keep her from you in the first place!!!!!

Maybe she would welcome it. At least it would show that you really do care about her daughter. Maybe that's exactly what needs to happen to make her realise that you aren't going to drop your daughter like a hot potato just because things have got a little bit more difficult for you.

But it's taken our collective time and wisdom to just get you to tell your wife and this thread will be full soon. We've still got access and telling your older daughter to go yet and I don't know if anyone has the energy tbh

debbs77. That seems reasonable.

Fairenuff. To be honest she has never been given any reason to believe I will 'drop my daughter like a hot potato'. I've been there for the last 5 years. Regular visits. Paying maintenance. And she know I love my PD.

That apart I liked your last para :)

You have dropped her now OP

You like this, you don't like that, like some sort of pick and mix display. Do us all a favour and don't renew this thread. You are beyond help.

What would I do in your position. I would fight like hell for my child and the devil take those who would stand in my way.

I would tell my husband that my primary responsibility is to my children, all of them equally. And that he could either support me in the battle to see my child or he could leave. I would not expect him to have a relationship with the child if he didn't want to or be overjoyed at the situation. But that I owed it to my child to have a relationship.

I would engage a solicitor and start proceedings to establish some type of legal contact, enforceable by law, with my child. As far as the parent of that child I would hope we could be amicable. But if not, then that's their problem not mine. It doesn't matter if the child was the result of a one night stand or a 30 year marriage. I certainly wouldn't stop fighting because I didn't want to make that parent angry. If he (as in my case it would be the father) could not understand that if was best for our child to have a relationship with both of us, then any consideration I might feel for him would have to be put by the wayside. It's about the child.

Accrossthepond55. I am sorry but I cannot understand the logic of your argument. Which seems to be based on one falsehood - namely that my wife is somehow stopping me seeing my PD, simply not true. And the only suggestion you make for resolving the situation in your eyes is to go to court.

If I tell my wife that I want my PD more than her, then how exactly does that change anything? The PM won't communicate so it won't change anything.

OK there is the minor issue of my wife vetting my emails. But I wouldn't write different emails even if my wife wasn't vetting them, because I do not have any affection for the PM in fact I don't like her. Hence the emails are just for practical arrangements. They are not about me and the PM getting back together. There is nothing romantic about them. Hence it makes absolutely no difference that they are vetted by my wife.

As for my wife handling the payment of maintenance (now going instead into a deposit account for the PD) again I can't see what difference that makes to the PM. As I said money is money and it all comes from me anyway.

As for starting legal proceedings. Well yes. I could do that but as I say I do feel that is a pretty awful thing to do to the PM who has spent years bringing up our child. Very hard work for her. Maybe it will come to that. But not yet.

And you say you would 'fight like hell'. But that has to have a practical method of fighting like hell. And not being able to communicate makes it impossible.

Anyway. I suppose ultimately all that you are saying is go to court. And it may come to that. But I shall be very reluctant.

debbs77. Not sure why you are making up cruel statements.

The PM dropped me from my PDs life.

To be honest she has never been given any reason to believe I will 'drop my daughter like a hot potato'. I've been there for the last 5 years. Regular visits. Paying maintenance. And she know I love my PD.

The PM dropped me from my PDs life.

So, you have regular contact for 5 years and then you don't. What changed OP? Oh, that's right, you gave your wife total control of the situation. So yeah, YOU dropped your youngest daughter from your life when you handed over responsibility to someone who has NO relationship with her or her mother. Relegating her to the "I can't be fucked with you really" pile.
What can you do? Man up for a start as has been suggested a million times. Oh, but you can't right? How could you complain about your lot in life if you actually took responsibility for it?
You need to go and see the mother of your youngest daughter. You need to apologise and reestablish the relationship you had. Oh, but you can't right? Too hard. Might affect YOU.
Whatevs.
Took me a while but I'm starting to realise this thread is just not real.

On the offchance that it is real. Please tell me WHY the mother in Poland should accept the situation with your wife. Please, tell us. You've said that's how it has to be but WHY should this be ok for her just because it is for you? How must she feel now having to be 'managed' by your wife. She may have been your 'dirty little secret' before but guarantee she's FEELING like nothing more than that now.

This thread is painful. It's clear the purpose of this is to find someone who will tell you its okay to abandon your younger daughter because you're not strong enough to stay in her life. You want someone to give you "permission" to take the easy option so you can blame them in a few years when you realise what a stupid thing you're doing.

Accrossthepond55. I am sorry but I cannot understand the logic of your argument. Which seems to be based on one falsehood - namely that my wife is somehow stopping me seeing my PD, simply not true. And the only suggestion you make for resolving the situation in your eyes is to go to court.

Your wife IS stopping you. She is stopping you by monitoring the situation and forcing you to reduce maintenance which resulted in the PM cutting you off. And what would your wife do if you announced you had bought a ticket to Poland with the intent of trying to see your PD and/or trying to make amends to the PM for the shabby way your wife has had you treat her? Do you think your wife didn't know this would cause problems? I do. And will your wife look favourably on spending money for a court case? If she does will you defy her?

If I tell my wife that I want my PD more than her, then how exactly does that change anything? The PM won't communicate so it won't change anything.

It changes things by putting your priorities in the right order. Your PD needs to come first. She is a child who has lost her father. And I have a feeling the PM would communicate if you took back control of the situation from your wife

OK there is the minor issue of my wife vetting my emails. But I wouldn't write different emails even if my wife wasn't vetting them, because I do not have any affection for the PM in fact I don't like her. Hence the emails are just for practical arrangements. They are not about me and the PM getting back together. There is nothing romantic about them. Hence it makes absolutely no difference that they are vetted by my wife.

Your 'romantic' feelings or lack thereof aren't the issue. The issue is that obviously your emails have changed or PM knows that your wife is 'vetting' writing them. The issues with regards to PD between you and PM are for the two of you to work out, not for your wife to dictate.

As for my wife handling the payment of maintenance (now going instead into a deposit account for the PD) again I can't see what difference that makes to the PM. As I said money is money and it all comes from me anyway.

Your wife forced you to reduce the amount. That is the issue, not who pays it into an account

As for starting legal proceedings. Well yes. I could do that but as I say I do feel that is a pretty awful thing to do to the PM who has spent years bringing up our child. Very hard work for her. Maybe it will come to that. But not yet.

If not now, when? Each day that goes by is a loss for your PD

And you say you would 'fight like hell'. But that has to have a practical method of fighting like hell. And not being able to communicate makes it impossible.

Fight like hell means getting a solicitor if PM will not communicate with you

Anyway. I suppose ultimately all that you are saying is go to court. And it may come to that. But I shall be very reluctant.

And why? It's what the courts are for. It is not evil or vindictive to want a relationship with your PD. It is not evil or vindictive to use the legal system to that end when the other parent refuses to cooperate

I'll say it again. It is not about you, your wife, or PM. It is about a young, innocent child who is being deprived of her father. If you think she's not worth fighting for by every means available, then I feel sorry for her. And even sorrier for you.

I'm not being spiteful, it is true!!!!!

The posters above have written it very well but you still won't listen.

Your one reason for resisting court is that you think it would be unkind to the Polish mother.

So you have to choose.

1. Be unkind to her and continue your relationship with your younger daughter so that she grows up knowing that you wanted her, loved her and did everything you could to be there for her.

2. Be unkind to your daughter by accepting that her mother is too angry with you to want you in her life.

In a nutshell, those are your two choices. What we are saying is that adults make their own decisions. Children don't. It's better to be unkind to the mother than the daughter because the mother has the power to change her situation and the innocent child doesn't.

I don't know how you can continue to bleat on about how unkind it would be to the mother without a care in the world about how unkind you are being to the daughter.

Is there another reason perhaps? The cost of going through the courts? The effort? The difficulty of keeping it all a secret from your older daughter?

I mean, this could work out all nicely for you if you leave it well alone. The pros for you are:

1. You don't have to do anything and you always favour the 'head in the sand' approach

2. You don't have to talk about it with your wife any more so you don't have to worry about her getting pissed off with you

3. You can just quietly put money away and pretend the Polish family don't exist

4. You never have to tell your older daughter

5. The shit will hit the fan after you're dead so you'll be long gone and it won't affect you at all.

I can certainly see why this option is the more appealing to you being the kind of man you are.

As harsh as it seems, I do think fairenuff has it spot on.

Your priority now needs to be your pd followed by her mother. Understandably your wife is hurt but her feelings cannot be your priority here. You have a five year old child, she's the innocent one in all this. Try and see things from your pd mothers point of view. Since you have told your wife a lot of things have changed for her and her daughter, for the worse. Despite what you agreed, your wife should not be in charge of this situation. I'm also doubting that your wife is really sending these emails etc. personally I would be going over to Poland and contacting the mother face to face. She needs to see that you care for your pd and that you will put her needs first. Your wife obviously won't like it but your marriage is dead anyway and has been for some time. I doubt see will ever leave you though due to the financially vulnerable position she is in and the social stigma.

Ted I've followed from the start and commented a few times.

This thread will be full at 1000 posts, at which point you'll need to start another one.

My best advice to you now is that you don't start another thread until you've had counselling. For yourself, and then subsequently as mediation with your wife with a couples counsellor.

Your wife controlling you is a massive issue here. She has had to find out her husband was unfaithful and fathered a secret child, but although that is incredibly awful, and a shattering revelation, it does not give her the right to dictate everything.

Go to counselling and be honest.
Then go to couples counselling.
Continue to send money to Poland, and letters and emails.

Fairenuff. That is slightly unkind. I DO want to see my PD and be part of her life. I have been for the past 6 years and miss her terribly.

I think your argument that there are only 2 routes is mistaken. Too polarised. There is another possibility which is that the PM decides that it would be a good idea to keep me in our daughter's life. And that may take time for her to decide.

Regarding court costs I have no idea. But I would imagine that most EU states have a fairly helpful attitude towards 'family court' matters, so I doubt that the costs are outrageous.

Squareasquare. I have already answered that question. I can see that this thread is rather long so I don't blame you for not reading it all.

Indigox. A bit of a strange comment. Why would I spend 5 years of my life totally besotted with my PD only to suddenly want permission from a stranger to abandon her?

HairyFairy01 That's incorrect. My wife enters the password for my email account (because she changed it). Then the double security thing comes through to my phone and I enter the number from the text message. Then I am into the email account and then I write the email. My wife then reads the email and sends it whilst I watch. So, yes the emails do indeed get sent. Also, due to the double security thing it would be impossible for my wife to either send an email without me knowing or read a reply without me knowing. So everything is above board with regard to the emails being sent.

NoSquirrels. Agreed about counselling.

But I don't actually see a huge issue with my wife controlling the emails and payments. As I keep saying, I don't feel constrained to not write anything just because my wife vets the emails. And regarding the maintenance payments they are going into a separate account now so that they can be given to the PM/PD as and hopefully when they want them.

I think some of you have been too unkind to my wife. She has been through hell.

Also, I cannot see that the PM has anything to complain about regarding communications and money going via my wife. Because the important point is that it makes absolutely no difference.

HairyFairy01. Seriously!!??? You think I should go to Poland and contact the mother 'face to face' ????? That seems way too aggressive. I would never do such a thing. I am not welcome there! I can't even believe you are giving me this sexist advice. Surely the last thing that a woman would want is an unwelcome man showing up on their doorstep? Sounds like grounds for a court order to keep that man at a distance! Which would in turn reduce my chances of a good outcome in court. If the PM doesn't want me there, then I shall not go there. Surely a man should respect the wishes of a woman and not visit uninvited? I find your advice shocking.

Finally, I really cannot accept that my wife is controlling. We came to an agreement that I am not happy with but which I feel honour bound to obey.

I would like to save this thread for the future. Does anyone know if there is a way to save all of the messages? Thanks for help with that.

Even if ted's DD2 was in the UK he'd not be entitled to parental rights and responsibility if he wasn't married to the mother of the child at the time(obviously he wasn't) or wasn't on the birth certificate (I assume he wasn't).
It's not a straightforward route at all to claim your parental rights if in the eyes of the law you are nobody to that child. Though having a DNA test in your hands is the first step on the way of being legally acknowledged as a father, though I supposed there still would be the mother's agreement involved.

Ted, people go to court to fight for visitation rights usually if they lived and raised a child/children together, and then one of the parents initiated separation and left with the children and has created a situation preventing the other parent from seeing the kids. And even then most sensible people try to do their best to solve the situation without involving the courts. When it's the sort of parent who is ready to stop the access of the other parent to their child just out of spite or their own personal problem with the other parent(not because the other parent can be dangerous etc), then what's not to say that it couldn't be the sort of parent who would try to poison DC against the non-resident parent? Especially if the DC are small and would believe anything their primary carer tells them, and especially if the other parent doesn't communicate in their mother tongue.

Pursuing the matter through the courts COULD be bad for the DD2. If he were to properly aggravate PM by the time he achieved the rights the PD might perceive him as such a monster she might herself refuse to meet him. Also in Eastern Europe going to court for settling family matters is not anywhere as normal as in the West, it's considered to be the last possible resort or very cold-hearted, people are expected to try their utmost to come to an agreement without involving lawyers. To start sending solicitors' letters to the PM would be like shaking red rag to a bull, and also pretty uncourteous considering she was a single mother and didn't demand that much from ted. I think in his situation patience and kindness are more likely to win over everyone's heart eventually.

There is another possibility which is that the PM decides that it would be a good idea to keep me in our daughter's life. And that may take time for her to decide.

That, again, would be a situation where you do nothing. I can see why it is appealing to you as it's clear throughout this thread that that is your preference.

Apart from when the opportunity to cheat on your wife comes along of course. Then, when there is something in it for you, suddenly you're all action, decision making man.

Do as you wish OP.

Literally done with this thread. It could continue for a year and it would be the same

Nodowntime
Exactly.

My thoughts precisely.

Nothing good will come from legal action. I should wait and hope and keep knocking at the door!

Thanks for explaining it all. Especially to those who are negative about this matter.

Best wishes

I did not say go to court. I did say consult with a professional qualified in family law in Poland, not random strangers on a forum. There may well be other options available, mediation for example. I think you need professional advice, what you do with this is up to you. Good luck.

Squareasquare. I have already answered that question. I can see that this thread is rather long so I don't blame you for not reading it all.

Oh, I can assure you I've read this whole pathetic thread. Every whiny justification and ever shift of blame post. And no, you didn't really answer that question so I'll ask again.
Why the fuck should your youngest daughters mother communicate with someone she has NO relationship because YOU can't be fucked? You've said it is that way because your wife insists but you have not addressed how the mother must feel knowing her child is so insignificant to you that you have simply wiped your hands of her and handed everything over to someone who has NO business interfering in the previously established relationship. Are you so fucking self centred that you cannot see how that must be for the mother of the child you dumped? What an insult to the woman who looks after your child every.single.day.
Honestly, the best thing you could do OP is leave them alone. Find some way to get the money to your child, or get mummy to do it, and walk away. You have nothing to offer that poor girl, you've shown who you are, and hopefully that little girl realises it was YOU that was the fuck up and not her.

Wow...I just read this whole thread!! :O

At the very least, send your daughter a card telling her that you love her. Send a letter to PM apologising to her and reasoning with her not to stop PD from video chats and seeing you. But even doing this, you're going against what you promised your wife...

I agree that legal stuff may cause pain, but if the PM realises how much you love your daughter she may relent so that you don't have to take that route.

Possibly the PM is just fed up with all the emotional nonsense and needs to cut herself off from it. I can see how stressful it would be for her and she too is facing her own kind of hell. I think you need to try and see things from her POV as well as your wife's.

If you are to see PD,. you will have to apologise to her Mother and sort out the maintenance payments. Why should PD have to suffer because your wife says she must have only 75% of the maintenance?
As a Mother I would be angry about this too! Of course she won't want to do things to help you see PD because she sees it that you don't have the backbone to ensure she gets the same maintenance payments.The child is the one missing out, missing out on adequate maintenance and the presence of her Father.

I see you've called a few people here "unkind". I do think that the truth hurts and it can be only a good thing to face the music and dance. It must though, be a shock to live with the truth after living a lie and a double life for so long. It was never going to be easy, but hopefully for the sake of the child, you'll work it out and do what's right for the CHILD.