So how do you handle it when the child of a gentle parenter keeps physically attacking your kid?

[beerisbetterthanwine]

I have recently joined a toddler group that I have been looking forward to a space becoming available on for ages. But one boy there keeps deliberately physically attacking my son. This boy is at least three, more likely 3 and a half and is over twice the age and twice the size of my ds. Last week he came over when my ds was sitting down and stamped on both his feet as hard as he could. His mum did take him to another room and gently explained to him that this was wrong. He did come over to apologise and then went over to his mum saying ' That was a good gentle apology wasn't it?', for which he got lots of praise. Fair enough. Except ten mins later he grabbed hold of the hood on my son's jacket and pulled backwards as hard as he could so that my son jerked down to the floor, smacking his head against the wooden floor boards. His mum didn't really do anything. This week he slapped my ds hard across the head. His mum sat him on her lap for a gentle chat. He spent the rest of the time on his bike very clearly trying to ram it into my son as he toddled about. I basically had to spend the whole time acting as a physical body guard for my son. The mum did stay with her son and say things like, 'ooh now careful with the steering, go around justpick's son' which missed the point. His steering wasn't poor, he was trying to ram my ds. He is absolutely delighted when he attacks my son, he grins from ear to ear. He does it because it is fun and he can do it without consequence, my ds can't fight back and his mum just effectively gives him a cuddle and a gentle chat, i.e. lots of attention.
I never used to be anti-gentle parenting but now I see it as a hyper individualistic, egotistical, self indulgent crap. My ds effectively seems to be collatoral damage for her parenting experiment. It's okay for him to get stamped on, slapped and smacked about for as long as it takes her ds to slowly, gently learn that this is wrong.
I'm fuming.

Oh and she never, ever speaks to me or apologises or acknowledges her ds's behaviour to me in any way. I seem to be invisible to her.
How would you handle it?
Sorry for the ranty post btw, but I am raging.

On the point that you don't know what she is dealing with, you don't. I saw a woman I know the other day and was about to bitch to a friend about how she exerts no control over her feral children then I learnt her dd had died. I expect she didn't really feel like telling her off on previous occasions because the dd had a terminal illness.

You really DON'T know.

If I was in your position op I would leave the play group as it doesn't sound much fun. In the same way that as an adult I would leave a pub if a fight was about to start.

Children don't become feral because their mum is temporarily too preoccupied to correct their behaviour. That's the result of a hell of a lot of "gentle parenting".

Totally with you OP. This makes me so cross. Your duty and instinct is to protect your son. Tell other kid firmly and loudly 'no! Don't do that!' and physically move him away from/ off your child.

He is there to play and develop not be injured because of someone's bullsh1t indulgent ineffective 'parenting' approach. I think she is being unfair on her own child to allow him to be so aggressive without doing everything reasonable in her power to teach him otherwise. He will end up being hated by everyone else. I've seen it happen.

And why on earth would or should you put your child in the line of fire deliberately by allowing this to continue? No doubt she will take objection to your direct approach, in which case you can explain that you are not interfering with her useless strategy, but if people won't take effective action to stop their child from hurting others, you will take reasonable action to protect your child from being hurt. I really hate this kind of crap. It is against every fibre in a mother's being to let her small child get hurt, why do so many people think it's ok/ funny/ everyone else has to learn the literally painful, traumatic way so their kid can learn without being told 'NO'?! What so it is bad for their child to learn about life with strong words, but it is ok for other children to learn about it by being injured - and under their trusted mother's watchful eye?! WTF?

Even worse when you get the 'ooh I think he was trying to give him a cuddle, just a bit roughly, he's so affectionate, aah' Yeah well can you tell him very clearly not to be so rough about it cos I won't have my child slammed to the pavement again by the little shit affectionate darling

If the other mum doesn't like your stance she, not you, can leave the playgroup. I bet she will keep a closer eye on him if she stays - and by the way, I expect everyone will be silently grateful to you. Good luck!

schmee of all the wet arguments, that is the soggiest.

Of courses OP doesn't know what has happened in this woman's life. How can anyone? but she doesn't need to know to protect her son. What difference does it make?

Nobody is saying OP should verbally abuse her, or start a hate campaign against her and her boy, but seriously, are you suggesting she doesn't mention it incase the woman has recently lost a child!?

Should I not speak to the postman when he yet again delivers my mail to the wrong house unless he is grieving for a relative too? Or should I not speak to anyone ever about anything?

Remember this woman is attending play group, wearing clothes and walking around. I think it's safe to assume her mental state is up to a conversation with another human who she might come into contact with at this group.

If something terrible HAD recently happened, a chat about her sons bad behaviour might - what - push her over the edge or something?

So OP should leave the group just incase?? Imagine she was telling her husband they do not go to the super duper exclusive playgroup anymore:

"Why not darling, I thought you were really looking forward to it"

"Well yes, but there is a 3 year old there who smacks the little one about"

"Well, ask him to stop"

"I have done, but he takes no notice"

"Well, that's not on, tell his mother, it's her responsibility"

"Good heavens, I couldn't possibly! I don't know anything about her. What if she has recently Had bad news? No, I'll just start taking him to the park instead"

Sorry but I'm not sure you are serious... This is the daftest notion I've ever come across!

What silly lass said to say is perfect, I think.

youmakemehappy - it wasn't meant to be an argument, just a statement of fact.

I left the group that the woman I mentioned went to because I felt her children were ruining it for mine. We weren't enjoying it because of their behaviour, and we don't enjoy conflict so we just started doing something we did enjoy instead. No issue. If she had started at a group we were enjoying, I might have had a word with the group leader. But the OP doesn't seem to be getting much out of this group so why put anyone through the hassle.

For what it's worth, I'm not a fan of "gentle parenting" - diversion yes, but I have some very clear boundaries for my kids. But you do have to recognise that you can't change other people, you can only change your own situation or attitude towards it.

Also, I'm not saying that the mother in the OP's scenario is necessarily going through anything bad. But I don't think the OP is going to get very far by criticising her parenting.

Er, well that's ok then

Maybe not criticising - pointing out where she could be doing a hell of a lot more to improve her child's behaviour.

Sneaks onto thread, strokes Fanjos hackles gently, backs away and waves from a distance, respecting person space. Runs off.

(what a hard time you've got and I dont quite follow it but I agree re the SN stuff but don't want to get eaten alive too!)

Very sooky of you miscellaneous, and not very helpful to the ops original point?

I think catkind said this further up: "I'd have left long before that point. That's what I'd call a natural consequence - if you can't play safely you have to leave. "

Personally I think this is totally the wrong thing to do and you're doing your child a disservice. You do that at this young age and what does the child learn? That all he/she has to do to leave a place when they want to is be violent towards another child. What are you going to do if it happens at a place where it's not convenient to leave? Like the waiting room of an outpatients ward in a hospital? A wedding? In the car? And when they start school and realise they have to be there all day, and decide they don't want to, what do you think will be the first thing to do that will get them sent home liken they want? Of course a "gentle parent" would probably argue in this last case that poor little sweetiekins is finding school so stressful and emotional - that's the reason for the violent behaviour.

No, I'm sorry - what parents need to be doing to help their child to learn socially acceptable behaviour is teaching them that you do NOT hit anyone, and you stay in that setting with them continually reinforcing that fact, by moving them away from the child being attacked and taking the toy they were playing with off them. And deal with any ensuing tantrums - that takes patience and effort, something which "gentle parents" always bang on about using.

All you are doing by completely removing a child from a setting when they hit is teaching them how to manipulate their parents into taking them home!

Silly lass I have said repeatedly on this thread that I don't blame the child. I do not think he is a brat and you have no basis to think that. It is highly offensive and totally out of order for you to throw that accusation at me.
Take your judges pants elsewhere because I am disengaging fom you and your insults.

Good point Curly

silly lass has given you some excellent advice, her suggestion about what to say to this woman is the best I have read so far.

Silly lass if you can't be bothered to read my posts please don't presume to know what I think. I said previously that I was going to speak to the mum about the issues our son's had so that we could find a way to sort it out. That is collaborative.
And don't distort what I said. I never said your suggestions were judgy pants. You would really have to live up to your username to think that. I said accusing me of saying a three year old was a brat, again in the face of what I actually said, was judgy pants. And it is. And it is rude and nasty.

Would it help if we were to gently redirect you and sillylass, beerisbetter? . Or would a firm 'NO'be better?

That made me laugh!

My work here is done!

It certainly is. I am going to follow your excellent advice and redirect myself in the direction of a glass of wine!
Have a great evening folks!

and for beerisbetter and sillylass and me!

The way I see it, OPs duty is not only to protect her child but to let him have a nice time. This boy is continuing to attack a much smaller child and it is not up to someone else to do anything other than warn him his course of action. Beer probably feels she's got more than enough to do bringing up her own child without having to "redirect" this boy . That's his mothers job. I'd just be saying "Justin! (Or whatever his name is) don't hit DS" while swooping DS out of his way. An assertive tone that carries and using his name each and very time might just do the trick. Just state calmly what he is not to do without any judgement that could rile his mother.

One child should not be allowed to terrorise others and generally disrupt what should be a happy time.

All you are doing by completely removing a child from a setting when they hit is teaching them how to manipulate their parents into taking them home!
I'd say it's teaching them that fun stuff stops happening if you're hurting people. And not spoiling the toddler group for other people. If DC wanted to "manipulate" me into leaving toddler group they could just ask to leave, it's not like I was there for my own enjoyment?!

Maybe I didn't make myself clear though, leaving isn't an immediate response to hitting for me, it's a response to child not stopping hitting after you've explained/prevented repeatedly.

I only ever had to leave toddler group once with DS (not for hitting, but snatching/not sharing), not had to with DD so far.

What would you do if DC was still doing whatever-it-was after you'd done your time outs or tellings-off or whatever your preferred method is? Just keep doing more of what isn't working?