So how do you handle it when the child of a gentle parenter keeps physically attacking your kid?

[beerisbetterthanwine]

I have recently joined a toddler group that I have been looking forward to a space becoming available on for ages. But one boy there keeps deliberately physically attacking my son. This boy is at least three, more likely 3 and a half and is over twice the age and twice the size of my ds. Last week he came over when my ds was sitting down and stamped on both his feet as hard as he could. His mum did take him to another room and gently explained to him that this was wrong. He did come over to apologise and then went over to his mum saying ' That was a good gentle apology wasn't it?', for which he got lots of praise. Fair enough. Except ten mins later he grabbed hold of the hood on my son's jacket and pulled backwards as hard as he could so that my son jerked down to the floor, smacking his head against the wooden floor boards. His mum didn't really do anything. This week he slapped my ds hard across the head. His mum sat him on her lap for a gentle chat. He spent the rest of the time on his bike very clearly trying to ram it into my son as he toddled about. I basically had to spend the whole time acting as a physical body guard for my son. The mum did stay with her son and say things like, 'ooh now careful with the steering, go around justpick's son' which missed the point. His steering wasn't poor, he was trying to ram my ds. He is absolutely delighted when he attacks my son, he grins from ear to ear. He does it because it is fun and he can do it without consequence, my ds can't fight back and his mum just effectively gives him a cuddle and a gentle chat, i.e. lots of attention.
I never used to be anti-gentle parenting but now I see it as a hyper individualistic, egotistical, self indulgent crap. My ds effectively seems to be collatoral damage for her parenting experiment. It's okay for him to get stamped on, slapped and smacked about for as long as it takes her ds to slowly, gently learn that this is wrong.
I'm fuming.

Oh and she never, ever speaks to me or apologises or acknowledges her ds's behaviour to me in any way. I seem to be invisible to her.
How would you handle it?
Sorry for the ranty post btw, but I am raging.

Happily watching tv = frantically refreshing

Yes, you're right usual suspect. I'm going to chill and make dinner. It is only a website... Don't know why I'm so jumpy about it.... I've been there I guess. When your child's been hurt you really don't want to hear that it's no big

OP I have been in a similar situation to you. What made mine more difficult, I feel, was that I was in quite a new friendship with the mum. I think it's easier to address a stranger. You don't actually have anything to lose but a lot to gain.

So our 2 kids were just over 2 years old at the time and we'd have play dates at our houses and go to the same groups. The little girl was always hitting, biting and pushing my son - and plenty of other children for that matter. Her mum only ever said " no, that's not nice". It did nothing. Every time we were in her company she hurt a child. She bit my son so hard once he had teeth marks and a huge bruise that lasted a week. I too was shadowing my child ready to intervene at any moment. It wasn't any fun and I found it quite stressful. I ended up avoiding them where possible as I couldn't relax.

Anyway, at one group this girl bit, slapped and pushed virtually every child (including a baby). Her mum (finally!!!) said " that's it we are going home" and scooped her off out of there. You could hear her screaming all the way to the car. Anyway, it was the last time she attacked anyone. It's almost like she was calling out for her mum to set this boundary! The little girl still gets in more cafuffles over toys etc at the groups but she generally keeps her hands and teeth to herself.

I'm not sure what's best for you to do as, in the end, I didn't have to do anything to deal with mine. I would maybe talk to the mum and explain how upset your child is getting about even going to the group because of the situation. Ask her if she could come up with another way of trying to stop her DS from hurting yours as the current way doesn't seem to be working. I would also be inclined to start being a bit more of the disciplinarian if this mum doesn't make any changes. I'd definitely avoid any physical contact but stronger "no's" can't hurt. If the mum gets angry at you then you have plenty to say back....

Good luck.

woah just got back on and am only posting again for beer in response to post of 19.33 not about anything before or after:
I think I generally come from a different angle and I'm not sure I think kids are predisposed to violence myself. I tend to see this sort of behaviour as attention seeking (the 3 of you outside bit you describe). What did you end up doing?

in that particular situation I would have responded to that behaviour by giving him some attention - grab my kid, sit him on my lap face child on bike (safe from bashing) and compliment him on his bike riding skills, find something positive to say. Then I think I'd ask older child to show my child how he does it and engage him in conversation maybe suggest the two of them race or something that distracts him from riding into my child. Then I'd bugger off inside and do something else with my son away from him.

TBH I would not want to confront a woman I do not know at a new group. Im guessing you dont know her from what you have posted. I also wondered if maybe the kid is younger than you imagine? my friend's boy is huge and often told off as though three but only 2.

fanjo hope the pms have stopped now. very silly.

Yes thankfully.

I think your posts are very sensible and spot on, mane.

oh thank you

gosh, think the fanjo bullying is a bit over the top, people are allowed to have different opinions.

you don't sound very happy!

Manechanger, the boy is definitely at least three as I heard his mum considering moving to the older group and he would have to be at least three. My ds is only 15 months (today!), so I can't really suggest racing or whatever. Besides I don't think it is safe for him to be close to this child. This child will be happily chatting away and being perfectly nice next to ds and then suddenly attack him, even though i am right there. It's unpredictable and when he does this my reflexes are not catlike enough to stop ds being hurt, even if he is on my lap. This experiment is not fair on ds and ds is not collateral damage to help this kid become better socialised. And my son wants to be outside, trying to keep hm inside will result in massive tantrum. I hated at school the way victims of bullies were made to change their behaviour, hide in staff room, go home early to try to outrun bully. Anyway, I think his mum was trying something like you suggest but it made no difference to his aggression levels to my son.

I don't think saying to mum there is an issue lets talk about how to handle it should reasonably be regarded as confrontational. She might regard it as such but I don't think I should feel responsible if she does.

I think kids do go through a stage of natural physical aggression. I read a health professional's article on this and it made sense to me of how kids behave.

Don't want to get into spat but personally, I think malkemehappy is getting a bit harshed on now. I have appreciated her understanding of how it feels. I won't say another word on this now! : )

She is getting harshed on?

For being told to stop haranguing me?

Have heard it all now.

Yes I agree you shouldn't say any more.

Unless you enjoy people laying into me for basically not doing anything.

Hmm.

But you didn't do nothing, did you? You yourself acknowledged you had been abrupt.

Mane, I have pondered on this in the shower and the approach you describe must be an accepted one in gentle parenting. Fact is, is just hasn't worked. I have sat by for two weeks now silently with the mum doing this approach and it has had no effect on kid. Maybe it would slowly, slowly over a loooooooong time. But in the meantime my kid would be getting bashed. And he would be learning something too. He would be learning that he should be scared of older kids. He would be learning that when other kids hurt him adults don't help him. That is why I called gentle parenting hyper individualistic. It seems, in this experience, to place the needs of the gentle parents kid over anyone else's.

That should have been 'needs' in brackets.

beer you sound very measured and sensible the way you are thinking it all through. We just have to do our best for our own children and sometimes unfortunately that includes challenging? other parents who are not being reasonable in their approach.

Stdg. I apologised.

If you think being abrupt deserves a kicking for hours then fair enough I don't personally.
personally.

But carry on telling me off. Am hiding thread.

I was abrupt at start of thread.and apologised.

Then my words were misinterpreted later as being snarky when I wasnt.

I was only disagreeing.

This is what I meant by doing nothing.

Anyway have no desire to carry on a ridiculous trial of what I said and didnt say so fill yer boots. Am offski.

Fanjo - I was just responding to your 'I didn't do anything post'. I do agree that you don't deserve the kicking you got, and I don't think I was kicking you.

That sounds like a very sensible way to parent, sillylass - gentle, but firm and effective. And totally different to the lazy, ineffectual parenting the OP described. It also makes a lot of sense that it would be as a response to a harsh upbringing.

Ok, I won't mention it again either, I've made my point. I don't think there is any need for anybody to post anything more that isn't supporting OP. This is her thread after all.

Mane, you do sound very laid back. I don't think I could be as generous. I've been in this situation before and the last thing i felt like doing is giving the little brat boy more attention by playing a game with him.

Doesn't sound like it would work either, as his mum tried. I too believe children go through an aggressive phase, but it needs to be handled, not pandered too.

At 3 he is old enough to know that the world doesn't revolve around him, and the fact that he doesn't says that he has been poorly parented for a while now.

I don't think OP sounds like the type to start a screaming argument. But I agree she needs to speak to the mother, for her own sake as well as her sons. It's hardly confrontational to request that she prevents her child from causing anyone an injury. I'd love to hear the mothers reaction, doesn't seem like the sort to apologise does she?...

my son is not collateral damage to help this kid become better socialised

This ^ sums it up. This woman is free to parent as sickeningly gently as she likes, but not at the expense of someone else's child.

God the flashbacks are so vivid from my encounters with the gentle parents (they labelled themselves Attatched parents) I'd put money on her having a sling and only wooden toys.

I knew one who didn't have a tv in her house and homeschooled. I was very young and inexperienced and I actually let her bully me into getting rid of my telly for a year and spending a fortune on MYriad! Her son was 7 and still vile and still a bully. Really viscous, I'd see him sneaking up to hurt the younger children and then saying it wasn't him, all innocent..ugh still makes me shudder.

When do you go again OP? I bet the others have had problems with the boy too.

Anyway have no desire to carry on a ridiculous trial of what I said and didnt say so fill yer boots. Am offski.

Very sensible of you.

Sillylass, I'm the same - was beaten as a child and have decided to be as different to my mother as possible. Sometimes my hands ITCH to smack, but I don't and I wouldn't. I do shout, but never I their face, insulting and demeaning them.

No way would I let my children deliberately hurt another child without getting angry though. In that situation I'd leave after it happened a second time. If it was your dog attacking a child, you'd drag it off wouldn't you!?

People post on mumsnet for view points, not everyone is going to agree with you.

The OP was asking HOW she should deal with the situation, not whether there was a situation to deal with or not.

Different viewpoints on HOW to deal with the situation are great and have all been accepted by the OP, the only things that haven't are posts filled with emotional clap-trap and wanting to make it all about another posters agenda.