So how do you handle it when the child of a gentle parenter keeps physically attacking your kid?

[beerisbetterthanwine]

I have recently joined a toddler group that I have been looking forward to a space becoming available on for ages. But one boy there keeps deliberately physically attacking my son. This boy is at least three, more likely 3 and a half and is over twice the age and twice the size of my ds. Last week he came over when my ds was sitting down and stamped on both his feet as hard as he could. His mum did take him to another room and gently explained to him that this was wrong. He did come over to apologise and then went over to his mum saying ' That was a good gentle apology wasn't it?', for which he got lots of praise. Fair enough. Except ten mins later he grabbed hold of the hood on my son's jacket and pulled backwards as hard as he could so that my son jerked down to the floor, smacking his head against the wooden floor boards. His mum didn't really do anything. This week he slapped my ds hard across the head. His mum sat him on her lap for a gentle chat. He spent the rest of the time on his bike very clearly trying to ram it into my son as he toddled about. I basically had to spend the whole time acting as a physical body guard for my son. The mum did stay with her son and say things like, 'ooh now careful with the steering, go around justpick's son' which missed the point. His steering wasn't poor, he was trying to ram my ds. He is absolutely delighted when he attacks my son, he grins from ear to ear. He does it because it is fun and he can do it without consequence, my ds can't fight back and his mum just effectively gives him a cuddle and a gentle chat, i.e. lots of attention.
I never used to be anti-gentle parenting but now I see it as a hyper individualistic, egotistical, self indulgent crap. My ds effectively seems to be collatoral damage for her parenting experiment. It's okay for him to get stamped on, slapped and smacked about for as long as it takes her ds to slowly, gently learn that this is wrong.
I'm fuming.

Oh and she never, ever speaks to me or apologises or acknowledges her ds's behaviour to me in any way. I seem to be invisible to her.
How would you handle it?
Sorry for the ranty post btw, but I am raging.

Honestly, I would take hold of the child every time he did it, and say, loud and clear 'No. Do not do that to my child'. She can choose to be 'gentle' all she likes, but as soon as it hurts someone else's child, it's not just about her choices any longer.

Thanks fakenamefornow. You and others are right. I need to get a backbone in real life at the group. I don't want there to be a confrontation, especially as I am the newbie in an established group, but I do need to protect ds. I don't want him to learn to be scared of older kids and he needs to know that I have his back.

Well he's five years away from telling her to fuck off when she asks him to do something.

It's her problem - or it will be when he starts school.
I'd suggest speaking quickly and sharply to him if he does it again, sometimes coming from a stranger it is enough.

I was maybe a bit too abrupt.

But I still maintain she was at least trying to address it.

I would give the boy a not so gentle telling off. Next time he touches your son tell him "do NOT hurt x, that is VERY unkind behaviour - uselessmum, your son has hurt x again".

Except ten mins later he grabbed hold of the hood on my son's jacket and pulled backwards as hard as he could so that my son jerked down to the floor, smacking his head against the wooden floor boards. His mum didn't really do anything.

Does that sound like a mother who is trying to address her son's bullying tendencies? To me it sounds like an ineffectual mother who is blind to just how bad her son's behaviour is.

just say to the kid, he's only little can you help him do blah blah see if he's just teasing him to interact. I'm always telling other kids off by sounding nice you don't have to be confrontational. Also I regularly tell my kids to avoid ones who like to bash, it's useful for them to understand how to avoid bullies in preparation for school where its not one to one care, ok your ds a bit small to understand at the mo but it's all socialisation.

Yes it is completely ineffective - I agree it is totally wrong.

I would definitely body block and go with the loud 'No!'. Protecting my child is my business even if others mums aren't good at dealing with theirs. On the same note - I'd be all over my son like a rash if he hit/rammed into another child at a group and I'd immediately apologise to other child and parent.

Maybe she is too embarrassed by her child's appalling behaviour to take you on?

This happens a lot at our group. Children arguing/hitting/pulling toys/falling on each other - some deliberate and some accidental. We all exchange "sorry!" looks/nods/smiles/statements and intervene quickly in situations. Everyone is very gracious at my group and readily sees fault in their own child.

I was maybe a bit too abrupt.

Just a tad Fanjo, just a tad

"do NOT hurt x, that is VERY unkind behaviour - uselessmum, your son has hurt x again"

Do this and tell the group leaders about it, so they do it too.

Singsong, I don't get the impression she is embarrassed at all tbh.

Yes, at other groups I go to parents do apologise if their kids push or hit or whatever. It's just good manners, isn't it?

I understand the red mist descending. At the same age as your ds a boy of about 3 and a half or four was stopping my dd going into a section of play equipment in the playground. I was annoyed but tried to get round it until the moment when he went up to her and raised his leg ready to kick . I - about ten feet away-just roared "Don't even THINK about doing that". Which brought his (very apologetic) Mum straight over. He was cross after a bad morning at nursery apparently. I do think you are within your rights to tell him firmly that he must not try and hurt your child. And his Mum needs to see that others will not put up with him deliberately targeting smaller children.

Sorry..sometimes I have to post in a hurry ajd dash off after DD.

We have a little boy of about six in dd1's class at school whose parents are like this. Completely ineffectual. As a result he is an absolute pain in the arse, throwing tantrums and running out of class and taking his frustration at not being able to do as he pleases out on the other children. The time wasted on calming him down and talking him back into the classroom just frustrates me. I'm a parent volunteer and I see this happen so often it makes me wonder just how much of the class time it actually takes up pleading and persuading this boy to actually just do as he's bloody told like the rest of the class has to.

And no, before anyone jumps on the special needs bandwagon, no, he doesn't have any special needs, he's just really difficult. And his parents are next to useless.

Ok I will jump on the "dont make crass comments like "special needs bandwagon" bandwagon."

Seriously it is not necessary and quite offensive.

Plus you have no idea what needs he has.

This sort of thing gives gentle parenting a bad name. I'd consider myself a gentle parent and I'd have left long before that point. That's what I'd call a natural consequence - if you can't play safely you have to leave.

Sounds like this may not be the right toddler group for you anyway though, if all the other children are older. Maybe try again in a year if you haven't found something better by then.

I'm a shrinking violet in all areas of life except one, hurt my child and see me roar. I can still remember the first time my 'roar' came on, talk about the worm that turned, I don't know what came over me but the hitting didn't happen again!

op get your mamma bear on.

We have a mum like this at our playgroup. Just call her out on it each time.

Don't get embarrassed get cross. She is more than aware of what he is doing.

I dread it when it's school holidays because her older son comes who is four and is even worse. In fact I avoid it then.

I started commenting on it loudly when he too was trying to ram a wooden trike in to dd (13 months) or when her youngest was hitting dd in the back with a wooden train track. She took great offence at first - quite shocked that if told him off. But she makes sure he stays away from dd now.

He just bee lines for other babies.

It worries me how many schools seem to share confidential medical diagnoses with all the parents, from posts on here.

And amazed at all the parents who can confidently rule out any reason for behavioural issues so blame the parents.

Seems there is no need for specialists to diagnose.

Yes I am addressing the SN issue as it was brought up (rudely) (Not re child in OP..re 6 year old having meltdowns who of course 100% doesnt have SN)

I hate parents like this and there are plenty of them.

Special needs has nothing to do with whether you allow your 3 year old to hurt another child. Whatever special needs a child may have, or none, it's the parent's job to police them and STOP them hurting people. If they do it, get told not to and don't stop, they should be removed or so closely monitored that they can be stopped in time. After all, that is what the OP ended up having to do to protect her own child, so it's something the mum could have done.

I think, some children who behave like this (not all, because sometimes it will be a SN) are just desperately trying to get someone to give them some boundaries and the secure feeling that comes from that. I have a friend who parents like this and her child threw a hard object in my face at very close range, very hard, and really hurt me. (Among many other similar actions aimed at my child and others.) I remember his mum comforting him and saying "Oh darling, you didn't mean to." The poor kid wailed in distress and screamed "I DID mean to!" It was like he was saying "WILL you fucking step in and give me some boundaries!?" but of course couldn't articulate that :(

I now have no qualms about telling kids off myself once I have given their parents one chance. I don't rant or get nasty but I am firm and employ my scary Serious Eye look.

I will tell you where I met a roomful of these types - fecking Woodcraft Folk (apologies to anyone whose WF is not like this, but ours is). I had a discussion with a woman there where she kept defending her decision to let her DC "express themselves" and I kept asking her a series of questions about how bad it would have to be before she stepped in, eg child throttling baby brother, grabbing a kitchen knife etc. She was floundering around because she couldn't cope with the idea of having to stop her child doing something. Sorry but I have NO time for these people. They are doing their DC no favours at all.

Aaaaaaand that was the last time we went to woodcraft folk...
(DS hated it too – he couldn't understand why the other kids kept ruining all the activities)

I wasnt discussing SN in relation to the 3 year old in OP.

It was in response to poster talking about a 6 year old in school who had meltdowns but definitely no SN.

Talk to the other parent. Ask her to specifically keep her son away from yours.

Helicoptor over your son. Don't hesitate to tell off the other child.

Bring in the group leaders.

Be understanding. Your child will be a boisterous 3 1/2 year old one day and may hit other, smaller children. The mother may be struggling and embarrassed and hiding it well under seeming indifference.

But yes, you've got to grow a backbone. This is the first of many problems you will have to address re the interaction of your DC and others.

Catkind, the term is about to finish and I am hoping that this boy and maybe the other older children will move up to the older kids play group next term and that some younger kids will join. Generally I think mixed age play groups are good. DS's nursery has all ages playing in the same spaces and it works well. But he would benefit from some other kids his age and for attacking kid to disappear.

I think you've two options, 1) to get shouty, and possibly go for public humliating the mother into acting, so a loud "no!" at her DS if he hurts yours followed by a really loud "Gentle Mum, your son is deliberately hurting mine yet again, can you do something about his terrible behaviour?" It'll take some guts, but hopefully she'll realise it's not on, or at least be upset enough to leave with him, which will at least solve the problem for you, or 2) talk to her before her DS hurts yours, can you go over to her when you first get there and say something like "Gentle Mum, I wasn't sure if I should come again this week as last week your son hurt mine a few times and didn't seem to respond to your chat with him, are you struggling with his behaviour? Is there anything the rest of us can do to help?" which will at least let her realise it's a problem. If she gets defensive, you can always take a judgement about leaving.

I would assume the problem will solve itself soon anyway, you've probably only got a couple of weeks before the toddler club closes down for the summer as they all seem to do, and then next september won't he be in pre-school?