Bugsy

[sykes]

For some reason I can't reply on the board on this thread (affair - is he/isn't he) and would rather converse via e-mail anyway. I'd be really happy to "talk" in this way as it's not unfamiliar territory. Please feel free to get my e-mail address from tech.

I really don't know. I'm certainly not going to hire a PD again - it is bloody expensive.
Yes, he has seen the chidren. He came around on Monday evening for an hour.
I will be leaving work early this afternoon so that I can go home and try and sort this situation out.
I feel very split. The proud bit of me wants him just to get out of my life (and certainly that is what I would have done if we weren't married with children). But the bit of me that has put in 11 years with him, has two children and a home with him wants to believe that he is just very stupid.

I don't blame you for having mixed feelings. FWIW, I could probably see myself forgiving my husband for infidelity but not until I felt he was being completely honest with me and was fully committed to rebuilding a life together.

Bugsy,
Supposing he was telling the truth, wouldn't the fact that you don't believe him show him that he had to change his behaviour, because after what has happened, you need to be made to feel secure again? He is not showing the respect that you deserve. It does not mean that you are throwing away 11 years if this finishes. You must have had some great times or you would not have stayed for so long, but he also must have changed, because if he had always been like this, you would never have stayed 11 years. Do you think he has got to the point now where he has changed so much that you will let yourself leave? I don't think you should worry about your kids. Never for infidelity, but for other reasons, when I was little my father moved out 3 or 4 times over 10 years, once for a several months. Although it upset us, it gave my parents time to think and sort out problems, and made him realize that he had to treat Mum better. Each time, when he came back, he had had to do a lot of work to persuade Mum that he had understood what had made her miserable, and that he was ready to try hard to behave better.

Very good points here about trust & respect. I can forgive and move on from the infidelity but I keep saying to him I need him on board 100% to do this. I need to have absolute assurance from him that he is totally committed (in the same way I am) to our family life together.
The counsellor kept asking him what he was doing to prove to me that he was trustworthy and he just couldn't seem to grasp the concept at all.
I am going to leave the office early and meet him this afternoon to try and make a decision.
I think I have been far too understanding. I am really going to lay it on the line and if he doesn't like what he hears - then he can go.

I think you've reached the right decision ultimately but am very much of Bells' view that it would have taken me a long time to arrive at it, for the same reasons. Children change so much in your life. He does sound as though he is being very dim about the whole trust issue, I can see why you might have given him the benefit of the doubt on grounds of thickness. Good luck, Bugsy.

oh Bugsy his "easier" excuse for booking into the same hotel is pathetic. If he was really willing to put in any effort to save his family he would keep her at arms length.

I'm not convinced he "gets it" yet- he seems to think he can lie his way out of any situation and still come home. I don't see how you can build up any trust in this man whilst he continues to behave like this. Not sure it will ever dawn on him.

Is he stupid? Certainly, but he's also making so little effort the situation is impossible.

Good luck this afternoon.

Bugsy - you are not throwing away 11 years - he is. I think you are so right to say you could forgive the infidelity, but not his current attitude that he has done nothing wrong. Thank about how you felt immediately you got the report from the PD. Angry that he was with her, or relieved that you were right to not trust him?

Good luck for this afternoon.

Bugsy, in a similar position I know I stuck with something when in a past life (pre children) I would never have put up with it. Like you I completely lost my faith and everyone around me was telling me to get rid of him. It took an awful lot for him to see a need to go out of his way to show me that he can be trusted (he hadn't had an affair but had done such that I no longer trusted him)... eventually giving him a chance he really didn't deserve and I didn't really know why I was doing it (other than that I love him and I didn't want to loose him and I didn't want our family to be pulled apart), and we have built our relationship up again and go from strength to strength on a daily basis. Sometimes you do just simply have to have a leap of faith... I hope he realises it before it is too late... whatever happens you know that you really have done all that you can do. Thinking of you, Winniex

Winnie, you have alluded to some serious problems at home on this thread and I am so relieved to read that you now feel the worst is behind you. Good luck for the future and do keep posting, you have been sadly missed during your quiet time!

I second marina's message, winnie.

Bugsy, good luck. As you say, the matter is all about trust and respect, not the the actual infidelity itself.

I know it was suggested earlier on the thread that you ask your dh to leave his job so he's not in daily contact with this woman. Is that still a last possibility to stave off separation, or have you gone long past that stage? As someone else said, he's thrown away 11 years, not you.

BUgsy - I agree very much with Bells - ( hope dh doesn't read this) I am almost certain I would/could forgive infideltiy if dh wanted to make the marriage work and really showed me how important I /we were to him.
To me the problem with you dh doesn't seem to be so much that he was unfaithful as that he really deosn't seem committed to making the marriage work post infidelity.
YOu don't HAVE to amke any aboslute decision now do you? To some extent ''time will tell'' and he will either cominue behaving in this cavalier fashion and so eventually alienate you so far that you REALLY do want rid or else he will suddenly realise what he is losing and sort himself out.

Bugsy, I didn't realise there'd been more on here till just now. Scummymummy is so right with what she says about "it may be worth thinking about what your long-term relationship would be like without trust and whether it is worth hanging on at all cost. " because believe me I am there right now and it isn't a very nice place. Most of my family think my dh is having an affair (which would be the second time) whereas I think he's having some kind of breakdown. I too have seriously contemplated a private detective but we don't have any money and I have no way of getting any from anywhere. I am sooooooo sorry you're going through this and know just what you mean about the death by a thousand cuts thing; it's so hard isn't it? What I find hard is having a daughter and thinking the whole time 'please let this never EVER happen to you' and also looking at my mother knowing how desperately sad she is that I'm stuck in this impossible situation. Huge huge huge hugs and I hope it helps to know that there's a whole mumsnet world out here thinking of you as we go about our days

Bugsy, if he really was sorry and wanted to make a go of his marriage, would he not have stayed away from this woman at all costs? The fact that he thought nothing of staying in the same hotel as her speaks volumes about how much he thinks he is in the wrong. And why has he kept hold of the receipts? How come he has her receipt too?

I'm really sorry about what you are going through. I know you don't want to throw away 11 years of marriage, it's such a long time to be with someone. But if he held it so dear too, he'd be doing a lot more grovelling. My thoughts are with you.

Marina and Tigermoth... Thank you.

Bugsy ... How are you today?

Bugsy - are you ok? hope the bank holiday weekend was alright for you - holidays of any sort can often be stressful. thinking of you.

Bad, very bad. Feel depressed and exhausted. Both kids had some horrific stomach bug. I don't think I have ever seen so much vomit & diarrhoea in my life, nor done so much laundry.
I have come to the conclusion that dh wants me to kick him out because he is too weak to actually call it quits himself. We had the worst session with the counsellor, where he just said how hard he finds it being with us and how much fun he has with HER etc etc. I cried the whole way through it.
Anyway, I am going to stop posting for a bit. I feel so down about everything, particularly my own ability to see what is the right thing to do. I think I know that he has probably got to go as I really can't see any way forward for us but some stupid part of me is really struggling to actually tell him to get out.
As soon as I have some more positive news for you all, I'll be back. Big thank you to all of you for all the support you have given me.

Bugsy I just want to say what a thought provoking thread this is and I imagine you must be feeling at rock-bottom at the moment. Lots of support and love from someone you don't know might not help but I'm sending it anyway. Good luck mate.

oh Bugsy I hope you've got some family and good friends you can lean on right now. You just don't deserve this crap.

If its any consolation once he's gone I'm sure you will get a sense of control back and the boot will be on your foot! Think of dark thoughts of revenge.. and just hang in there.

keep strong
Lil

Agree with Rioja and Lil, Bugsy. We'll all be thinking of you and hope to see you back here soon. Please don't think things have got to be "better" before posting again, Mumsnet is here for the bad times too. I have had moments of being so sick and tired of being the "person whose baby died" - you just don't want to be that person for a while, sometimes, do you. You want to be the person whose life is basically OK again. Lots of hugs to you.

Bugsy, please post whenever you want/need to, you're bound to be up and down right now. Sorry that your children have been ill as well, hope they will be better very soon. Take care for now.

Dear Bugsy, so sorry to hear that things have got so bad.Maybe some time to get your head around the situation is needed-depends a bit on what sort of person you are-I for one do tend to isolate myself from friends when times are rough.It isn't the answer for everyone but it does help me.But whenever you want company we are all here.Do hope so much that your situation will start to improve soon, in one way or another.I admire so much the way you've been handling all this .Best wishes and cyberhugs GRMUM

Remember through it all - your children need you and love you to bits....there will be a time when you will be the happy , lovley sexy person that I'm sure you were before all this * was shovelled on you.

Bugsy, so sorry that you've had such an awful weekend... I hope the children are better now.
Completely understand your need not to post for a while. Thinking of you, cyberhugs, Winniex