What is life really like in the UK?

[YellowEyePenguin]

I apologize in advance for the long post! But I would really like to get some opinions from people.

My British husband and I (also British) are currently living in Dunedin, New Zealand, with our two daughters, ages 6 and 8. We've been in NZ for 15 years now and are really considering moving home to the UK. We never intended to stay in NZ but, long story short, accidentally got swept along with life and are still here. On the whole life is pretty OK. We're very happily married and our kids are at a wonderful school. We're also really lucky that my sister and her family live in the same city. However, we just pine for home. We're both very close to our families but find, because of the time difference, it's incredibly hard to keep in touch as much as we'd like, and our parents are now in their mid seventies. I feel scared at the thought of missing out on their last decade or so. And wish my children could have a relationship with them.

On top of that we feel like it's so hard to make any connections here. We love our house and the wildlife and coastline. But we have very few friends and so most of our time is spent as a little unit of four. We're also increasingly frustrated by the enormous cost of living and the fact that we'll never be able to afford to improve our house (for example, double glazing would cost $70,000 and so we're forced to constantly battle the mould and the condensation). We can't afford to explore the rest of NZ and so are confined to our small, geographically isolated, city. Any money we do have goes into a separate account used for trips to visit home. And we're miserable at the thought of growing old here.

The issue is that we are trying to decide what to do for the best; particularly for our girls' sakes. Both of our parents are really concerned that we want to return to the UK and they believe that NZ offers a better life for them. Both sets of parents have mentioned that the UK doesn't feel as safe anymore, with increasing violence and aggression since Covid. And that there is a general feeling of despondency in the country.

We don't feel that NZ is the utopia that a lot of our family seem to think is. It has its own political, economical and social problems. But we're really trying to gauge whether our parents' concerns are true. We know the country will be different to when we last lived there and expect to have dissatisfaction with various things, but hope that being close to family again, and the countryside etc will outweigh it.

Id love to hear how you all feel the situation in the UK is at the moment. And I do know that it is entirely subjective and will depend on where you are, your income, your relationships and so on. I'm just going round and round with the looming decisions, especially as I would want to move relatively soon, while my daughters are still young.

We're hoping to relocate to Norfolk.

Editing to add that my major concern is the children. They are both very sensitive and find change challenging. In some ways i feel like life could be better for them in the UK, but I worry that they might be really impacted by the upheaval. Also, their school is just amazing, very nurturing and supportive and I would be so sad to leave it.

Not least because if the OP's DC grow up in NZ and want to go to UK universities, they'll pay overseas rates, which are £££.

NHS a disaster with long waiting lists and strikes, schools under funded and crumbling, sewage dumped in waterways, cost of living crisis, "sticky inflation", house prices might crash at any minute... yeah, I'd stay put if I were you.

Excellent post!

For me, the current UK approach to Covid is massively in its favour. NZ went way too hard with all their rules (even worse than the UK, which was bad enough) and we have all read about what a disaster NZ's isolationist policy turned out to be.

Mindful of their nature, but don’t disable your child’s opportunities by pandering too much to ‘sensitivity’ or you will end up with teens with anxiety disorders. Children need to feel secure, comfortable and safe. Maybe the isolation isn’t helping them either?

Another one! Yay - half empty person buried in Labour campaign material 😂

My child has asthma we went to hospital last Thursday - do you know how long she waited? Zero minutes. She was seen immediately by a nurse, then a doctor immediately after - discussed what to do next, and consultant came by to check we were out with steroids in less than 40mins all checks completed.

I don’t know what it is like elsewhere but we were so impressed. Hospital was spotless. Staff were outstanding. The nhs crumbling feels like a huge stretch to me. I think medics were worn out by covid - it seems much better now.

Still think uk the best place in the world.
Lots of negative changes have happened but I would still rather live here than anywhere else. It feels real and gritty and interesting and has loads of history.
Love it.

The NHS isn't on it knees everywhere. Experiences vary. Being in Scotland our waiting times seem far better than many parts of England.

Not here / SW our local health teams are excellent

Yeah it varies hugely. Where we were wait times were awful for both emergency care and elective care. My husband had to wait nearly 14 hours with severe burns on his foot, they needed skin grafts and quite a lengthy stay.

I don't know what Norfolk is like (or NZ), but I would say, don't be too swayed by "concerns" from loved ones.
I'm from another county originally (parents were immigrants) and at one point was considering going to live there.
All my relatives there were outraged and scared me off the idea with similar concerns, telling me to stay in the Uk.
Yet they continue to live in said country with no plans to move.
People will always complain about where they live and think the grass is greener, but they're not living your life and can't really know what's best for you.
Part of me still slightly regrets not trying out living in "the old country" but I've built a nice life in the UK now and am settled.
For what it's worth, I think life here is pretty good. You're never too far from a city, beach or countryside and in a short time you can be in Europe, which has so much variety.
The NHS in my area is pretty good, for a state healthcare system. My child isn't at school yet so not sure what that will be like but the nursery is great.
People are generally friendly and I have lots of friends, I like the diversity of the Uk and the freedom to be yourself.
Work-wise, if you have qualifications/experience that are in demand and you want to work hard, you'll do well. There are lots of opportunities, even in smaller cities and towns (something else that attracted me to stay in the Uk, in my parents' country if you want a good career and standard of living you have to be based in the capital, I now prefer a more relaxed pace of life.)
Overall I really like it here, yes there are problems that others have listed but nowhere is perfect.

Maybe it just depends where you Iive but that's not my experience at all. The NHS has always been fab, I was told on Friday I need an op on my shoulder and my op appointment is tomorrow. The times I've needed the NHS over the years it has been great, I doubt that happens in many places around the world unless you're paying for a hefty health insurance policy.

The schools are better, even with all that's going on, than my experience at school in the 90s/very early 00s.

The UK is a good place to live, certainly not perfect and certainly room to improve but it's not catastrophic in lots of places.

I can't speak for Norfolk but where I live is lovely and things are great. I have no idea about living in New Zealand but I have friends from there who live here and say it's too isolated, expensive and backward in New Zealand for their liking.

I've lived overseas, there's ups and downs to every country. School systems differ, healthcare systems differ (in quality and money) cost of living generally has variations - but I know from my Australian family that things cost a lot more there and pay doesn't fully compensate).

But ultimately whether you want to live somewhere is a lot more nuanced, it can't be quantified. If you return to the U.K. there will be things you miss for sure, I still miss buying salmon straight from the Native American fishermen and clam chowder a decade on.

If you can retain your right to residency, you could return, is that a possibility?

Hmmm. I have a colleague from NZ (born & raised). We all live in Norfolk UK. He says that the problem with NZ is there are really only 4 major cities & rather limited job opportunities for professionals unless they succeed well in one of those 4 cities. His sister moved to Oz, his cousins make most their money from some popular dolphin experience (for international tourists) in NZ that struggled during covid. Colleague hasn't lived in NZ since he was an older teen. it's not like Norfolk has amazing range of job opportunities either, although there is (I think ?) a deaf specialist school in Norwich.

Moving continents is a big deal. I did it once & haven't repeated.

Compared to my native (big open space country), Transport here is easy, Internet access is brill, next day deliveries are easy/common, intellectualism and green (or blue) spaces are prized. Dentistry is difficult to get & expensive, public services struggling, cities are dirty.

Thanks so much for all the responses! I honestly didn't expect to get so many replies!

It definitely seems like some over-arching themes in people's responses and I appreciate the honesty from everyone.

It's really interesting because I posted the exact same question on a Facebook group for British expats who have returned to the UK and the responses frpm them are a stark contrast to here! I think once you have lived abroad you get a new appreciation for everything that life in the UK offers. That's not to say that I don't believe that the NHS is in dire straits, and the crime levels have risen etc. But there is definitely a tendency for Brits to believe that everywhere is better than the UK!

For those of you who suggested that we make a return visit, we did spend two months in the UK earlier in the year and it was just wonderful. It had been 6 years since we had last been able to visit, because of covid and the fact that NZ closed its borders. And it was just wonderful. I felt so utterly surrounded by love from so many people and everyone was so desperate to see me. I had friends rearranging their busy lives so that they could drive across the country to see me again ❤And when I returned to NZ, it was such a painful contrast as the only person who was desperate to see me was my sister. I didn't hear from anyone else for weeks. I firmly believe that life is about people, and being with the people who make you happy. And if the UK isn't wonderful, at least I'll be with the people who make me happy. And being in the same time zone would be amazing. At the moment I speak to my parents every 6 weeks or so, because they are late to wake up in the morning, and early to bed in the evening. I never speak to my brothers or my sister in the UK.

I haven't been put off my hopes to move back. But I do need to think about my daughters and whether it is fair on them to do it.

@Ragged Yes! Your colleague is exactly right! And although my children are very happy at the moment, I wouldn't be surprised if they end up moving to Australia or the UK eventually for better job prospects!

@theresnolimits thank you. I found your post helpful. You're right, the cost of living argument is redundant really as it is extremely high here too. And we have the added problem of there being a monopoly over services, which means there is no competition to bring prices down. For example, we have only two supermarket chains. Plus, because the city I live in is very far south and quite remote, the cost of food is higher than in other cities because of the transport costs.

I know that it would take me time to readjust. And I worry that I would always wonder if we should have stayed (but then it will be the same in reverse). I am a pretty positive person and find pleasure in the little things in life so I think that would stand me in good stead.

@drumsandbell Yes! Love that description! And that is what i miss about it. There's been a topical debate in NZ recently about the lack of depth of the people, because the country is so young and doesnt have a long history.

@Barnowlsandbluebells thank you so much for your post. Its great to hear from someone else who has lived in NZ, and who understands the situation. Its so good to hear how happy you are now.
How old were your children when you moved back to the UK? That is my biggest worry. Im so scared of doing the wrong thing by them!

@Eyesopenwideawake I don't take offence at that at all! In answer to your question - mainly because i have amazing friends back in the UK already. But also, as lovely as a lot of Kiwis are, they are incredibly hard to connect with, whereas Brits are open and friendly. These are sweeping generalisations of course! And I don't want to offend any Kiwis on here. But it is a common discussion amongst expats here. I am a friendly, bubbly, person and I have had to actively dial back my friendliness because it seems to scare Kiwis off. They are very reserved on the whole and can be resistant to friendliness.

Where I live, in a small isolated city, everyone is still friends with the people they went to school with, their parents are friends because they went to school together. Everyone knows everyone. Which is great if you're also born and bred here, but as an outsider it is really hard to penetrate social groups. People are friendly to me, but I don't get invited to be part of a social circle as I didn't grow up with them. Its a really hard thing to explain.

I do have friends here, but not close ones.

Also, being back in the UK, immediately gives me the option to socialise again with my parents, my three UK-based siblings and their families, two of my cousins who I am close to, and several of my aunties and uncles.

Being in NZ, on a completely different time-zone, is particularly isolating because I don't get to talk to these people even with facetime! I only speak to my parents once every 6 weeks.

@whirlyhead I appreciate hearing about your experiences. Its so tricky as my fear is that, if I bring my Kiwi kids back to the UK, will I be causing them to pine after NZ for ever more?? I would hate that! But then I also hate the idea of them missing out on knowing the family, because I feel utterly blessed to have a huge network of extended family.

I'd suggest you go for a long visit to NZ before you decide to emigrate there. It isn't the same country that it was when I first moved here 15 years ago (which is what a lot of expats here say). And I'm guessing its been even longer since you've been there.

DH and I lived in NZ for 5 years, in Dunedin. we had our first baby there (so he’s a kiwi) and moved back to the UK when he was 5 months old. Tbh I knew as soon as I got pregnant that we wouldn’t stay. The idea of my children growing up without knowing their grandparents and other family really really hurt me. We ended up moving to France, but my kids still have a very strong relationship with all their grandparents and other family in the UK as we’ve spent a lot of holiday time with them.

NZ, like the uk, has good and bad points as a place to raise children. It’s parochial, small town mentality, there’s not much ‘’depth’ to it culturally or historically if you are comparing it with the UK or Europe. It’s quite inward looking. But the sheer beauty of the place, the expectation that you’ll be sporty and active, j the time you spend outdoors etc are all great. DH is a teacher and taught in all the Dunedin schools at some point: compared to the UZ there were lower academic expectations, much higher emphasis on sport, and less pressure overall. Kiwis work to live rather than the other way around.

DH would have stayed and still has some regrets that we didn’t raise our boys in NZ. Their lives would have been completely different. But for me, and for him too most of the time, the relationship they have with their family is irreplaceable and I wouldn’t swap it for ‘lifestyle’ reasons.

I live in London. There's been a rise in petty theft and street crime but I doubt you'll encounter the same concerns in Norfolk.

Agree with pp: public services and the legal system is on its uppers. But the political situation is, if Labour get in under Starmer, will much change? Also, the level of government corruption is startling.

I've experienced adequate schooling for my child but it's very focused on getting results rather than any breadth of subject knowledge.

The cost of living has surged massively. I used to have a decent sum left over each month to save and also to go out and enjoy life. That has been massively curtailed. But that's the same all over Europe.

The positives are: Our history and culture, the common decency of most people, the humour, the "keep plodding on" attitude, the weather (all of it!), and the common sense of injustice when something goes very wrong. And the baked goods.

@ForthegracegoI so good to hear from someone who has lived here! You sum it up so well! It isn't a bad place at all. But doesn't feel like my home, and the pull of family - and my homeland - is painful! I so wish we'd moved before the children started school!!

What strikes me OP is you are lonely in NZ. Why do you think that is? Is it a cultural difference or where you live?

there are pluses and minuses of both. You can’t really compare. As an aside I thought the people of NZ lost their minds during covid and I thought the then government ghastly.

my husband lived in NZ for years and moved back for the reasons you have. He misses the “ocean” (we now live by the sea though). He misses his NZ friends. He actually wouldn’t go back though for many cultural reasons he couldn’t quite articulate to me.

I think for some people there is a pull to home. Your children will settle in the UK there are huge issues with the NHS and education.

but I think you are homesick.